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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 18:30:04
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There's been much about this on the other (bewildering) thread, albeit amongst a handful of members.
As I said on that thread, it's obvious they are not going to play. Maybe they have no intention of ever joining in, maybe they are considering it.
First question is - has anyone asked them, off the forum, if there is a reason for not posting and if so, what it is?
Second question is, assuming the answer is 'no' to the above, is anyone willing to write, email or attend a meeting to ask the question? Meeting might be good as it might get minuted on their website, but in any case, the answer can be posted here.
Third question is can this be kept on topic please.
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 15:51:41
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I emailed the APC asking for an official response and have received the following reply: quote:
On the subject of the AVL forum, the Parish Council now takes the view that it has its own methods of disseminating information via the website and newsletters. These are considered more appropriate ways of informing Council Tax payers of what the Council is undertaking on their behalf. Members of the public will always receive a response directly if they email, write or come into the office and ask questions.
This can be taken as confirmation that the Parish Council no longer wishes to be registered as a user of the AVL forum.
Rob Martin,
Clerk to Angmering Parish Council.
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 16:48:17
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APC has the same Chairman now, as the one who asked the then Clerk to register on AVL.
APC has the same "methods of disseminating information" now, as when they registered, ie. "via the website and newsletters."
So how can they be "more appropriate" now? Nothing has changed. |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 18:16:26
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Why not write and ask them, Bert!
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 18:48:56
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| BFA, I am making a comment on the "official response" from APC, on the forum subject, that you initiated. |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 22:39:55
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Sorry Bert, just yanking your chain, I should have added an emoticom or something.
But your comments/question have been done already and it seems that it's only the same names, that you need less than five fingers to count, that are interested anyway. It took 11 days before anyone (and no-one new) responded to this topic.
I said in the OP that it was obvious the PC are not going to play, and now it's official.
Personally I think it's a shame, but, for many reasons, I really don't blame them.
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 09:00:26
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| BFA, I don't think it's my chain being yanked, but keep up the good work. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 10:30:10
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If APC will be posting more to their website instead of participating in the Forums, then they will have to really develop their site. The News Desk, for example, is an absolute mess - latest news being mixed up with that of a year or more ago.
The Parish Clerk told me this morning that APC will shortly be developing their website. I told him that I've heard this every year for the last ten! Will this be another false dawn? |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 15:41:35
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I agree the APC website just does not improve & if APC think that their Parish Newsletters are an efficient method of communicating then they are deluded.The articles are generally old news by the time they are published & the Autumn issue was so short of news that almost half of the back page was devoted to a wordsearch.It is in danger of becoming yet another piece of junk mail people consign to the bin without bothering to read
If relevant news is so scarce then here's a couple of ideas:
Start asking Angmering residents for feedback on APC policies or decisions in an opinion poll/survey format.
Introduce AP Councillors to their constituents as this will provide people with some idea of who they are when election time comes around.
I would have thought that councillors glean quite a lot of feedback from AVL but then I am of course assuming that councillors have not been banned from reading AVL because of its subversive content. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 18:53:21
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I agree with you BRAM. Newsletters are often a repeat of what has already been published in the council minutes. They've become very dull and predictable.
I submitted a short history article on Roman Angmering some 20 months ago and it still has not been published. When I reminded APC, I was told that it would be published "when there was space"! However, the favoured few have articles published frequently for some reason. I only submitted the article because APC asked me for one.
When I spoke to the Parish Clerk this morning, it seemed quite clear that parish councillors have been banned from commenting on the Forums on any APC matter as allegedly incorrect statements have been made in the past. As the vast majority of such councillors' comments came from the Chairman and Vice-Chairman, I find it difficult to accept this argument. As mentioned in a previous topic, could this be another case of the tail wagging the dog? |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 23:43:14
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Well, maybe things should be questioned inwardly?
It's not just APC (in an unofficial capacity), that have jumped ship, the forum used to be a very busy place and now it's not.
Why?
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 09:28:43
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BFA, answers to your question would undoubtedly push this thread "off topic" as there are so many reasons. I suggest you start a new topic with your question.
On this topic I would say that APC never jumped ship from the Forums as they never came on-board (apart from the forced registration by the then Parish Clerk which was demanded by the Chairman). |
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patty
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 12:32:21
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Parish Councillors are governed by a set of rules called Standing orders. These ensure they all behave ourselves! One of the rules says they should not talk directly to the media on PC matters.
This ensures that Councillors do not make promises that cannot be kept, or give information that is either incorrect or misleading. Neither needs to be intentional, but as we all know, sometimes with slightly different wording, things can be greatly mis-interpreted.
I think its a brilliant idea that someone like Neil puts the questions directly to the PC and receives their official reply which he can then post here.
We can post on here as individuals, which I have done many times in the past, but when people threaten to post dog pooh through your door because you havent solved the problem quick enough for them, then I can well understand why the members do not post here.
They are all volunteers and most of them work. They give up their spare time to try to ensure things are done to the benefit of the village.
More participation from the villagers would be so welcome. Suggestions, ideas, anything that can improve the village/environment would be so welcome. We can all moan about things, but how about a few more useful suggestions to help the Council help you.
Personally I think it is a shame that problems have caused something of a rift between the Council and this web site, as in the past they have worked well together and Neil has given a tremendous amount of support to PC projects both personally and through his web site.
I am sure an amicable compromise could be found, and we can all get back to helping each other.
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any comments and views listed above are those of myself personally and not as a Parish Councillor, and in no way reflect opinions of the Parish Council or any other professional bodies |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 13:33:32
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Patty
Surely the point is that APC should be justifying their decisions "on our behalf" & doing so on AVL is a far more effective method than any other currently used by APC.
Excusing APC silence by quoting "Standing Orders" is a red herring as you are not being asked to divulge sensitive commercial information & the rationale behind any decision which results in Angmering council taxpayers money being spent should never be withheld.If APC took the opportunity to utilise AVL website then "information should not be incorrect or misleading"- the article by the Parish Clerk on the APC website regarding the CC demonstrated that accurate posting is possible.
The increasing rift is not just between APC & AVL but between APC & Angmering residents.
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 13:50:29
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Most of the forums I have visited have an element of negatively about them, and the AVL Forums are no exception, although not as bad as many I have read or currently follow.
I also understand APC's position and was rather surprised when they actually registered although personally I had wanted them to. But I also feel that whatever APC would have said on the Forums, it would never have been enough for some members of the community. They were on a hiding to nothing which is rather unfair on councillors - most do a good job and have little recognition by the community as a whole.
Notwithstanding that, knowing what the Standing Orders required about speaking to the media, why did APC register with the Forums? Is this an admission that the Chairman did not know the content of his own Standing Orders? APC had this policy about dealing with the media for many years before Forum registration.
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patty
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 18:05:26
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BRAM - I am going to have to disagree with you over the rift being with APC and the residents.
I think you will find that APC's statement has always been that they will not participate in this because of the anonymity of some of the posters.
From my personal view, I would not be happy to think we are paying a clerk to spend half his time answering posts on this website, when he has a lot of more important things to be doing. As you know, once a topic starts, it can go backwards and forwards for ever and would take a lot of time up. However, perhaps queries can be put here and every now and again, Neil, who uses his own name can ask the PC for a reply which he can then post here for everyone to see.
Neil - If the chairman made the then, clerk register then we can only presume it was so the clerk would make the replies rather than any councillors. I think you may find the old saying applies : you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink! |
any comments and views listed above are those of myself personally and not as a Parish Councillor, and in no way reflect opinions of the Parish Council or any other professional bodies |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 19:00:14
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See - a reason is given; not an excuse, a reason, and accusations follow straightaway.
There's only two people (who are both anonymous) plus the forum owner, showing enough interest to register and post on this matter, does that not tell anyone anything? The village generally does not care and nor do the majority of those that have registered here.
The PC could maybe make more use of this website through the forum in some way or other, but the truth also (as I was trying to point out in my last post) is that the forum has failed to become one that they are happy to participate in. Threats, abuse, taunts, snide - and more - mostly anonymous, have taken their toll and the damage is probably beyond repair - you've blown it I'm afraid.
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Edited by - BFA on 13 Oct 2010 19:28:34 |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 19:13:14
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One thing that concerns me is the emerging comments that APC has a rift with the AVL website. It's not new - back in 2004, even before the site went live, APC hated the idea of a site that might rival theirs.
The AVL website is a serious site providing factual news, village history, local information, for the benefit of the community and for the promotion of Angmering (see "What to do & See" page for example). This often includes support for APC initiatives which I'm pleased to give when I personally agree with them and/or have sufficient time.
The Forums are a seperate entity from the main site, accessible through a dedicated portal, and were only introduced at the request of villagers. I was never keen to include them although I saw some benefit for residents in having an interactive area where they could express their opinions. I am the principal moderator and will comment mainly as a resident with a great love and concern for this village, having lived here for 42 years.
APC does not seem able to separate the two entities in their minds which does not help relationships.
Patty, with regard to leading a horse to water, etc., if staff of APC refuse the reasonable demands of their bosses - the councillors - they should be sacked! That's what happens in the real world. As I've mentioned, there's been too much of the tail wagging the dog in the last few years which makes APC councillors look impotent which is a great shame as, individuals, they all try and do their best for this village. |
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patty
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 19:29:00
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Neil
I think there is no doubt about which web site is the better, ignoring the forums, there is no competition.
It is therefore a shame, that the forums cannot be seperated from the main web site with regard to personal or professional opinion.
Your site has given the PC a lot of support in the past.
With ref. to the leading a horse to water bit, I think you may recall that that particular 'horse' did resign!
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any comments and views listed above are those of myself personally and not as a Parish Councillor, and in no way reflect opinions of the Parish Council or any other professional bodies |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 19:55:09
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BFA and Patty.
Clearly you refer to BRAM (who I do not know) and me, who appear to show an interest in village matters. I am not always negative, but I have been critical of the decision to register and then fail to use these forums, for the benefit of the website readers, who may not post comments, on village matters.
I have not used "threats, abuse or taunts," although I appreciate there has been some inapropriate comments by some in the past over the CC and skateboard park issues.
Personally I think you misjudge the situation re. the use of the forum for APC matters. I believe APC are missing an opportunity.
This matter could have been dealt with many months ago, one way or another, by APC and this particular subject would not have dribbled on.
The other issue I have to say I have, and it is nothing personal, as I know both BFA and Patty do a great service to the village in a number of ways, business and community.
But the over sensitivity to anything relating to APC on this website is rather strange. I am sorry to have to quote Patty herself from one of these forums.
"Before I joined the council I used to go to meetings and ask questions, sometimes I had to demand answers as I was ignored. I ranted and I raved on this site, just as you are doing now, but I did get the facts from the horses mouth so to speak."
Patty July 2009.
"Believe me, I moaned about them (APC) more than all this site does put together, so I joined."
Patty Aug 2009.
I totally respect Patty for joining after all the trouble she had, but I find it somewhat strange that it was all perfectly ok for her to take that view, on this site, but some of us are criticised for doing much the same, and by her own admission we are not as bad as she was. Very odd. Double standards is the phrase that comes to mind.
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patty
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 20:17:44
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Bert
Fair do's. BUT, I think you may have misunderstood what I have said earlier.
Yes I ranted and raved, BUT only after I had gone straight to the Council to air views, ask, whatever. It was their replies/attitudes to me and other members of the public that caused me to rant.
I did not ask them or expect them to reply to me on this forum, I had already approached them directly.
That is all I am asking people to do. Go get your answers, then if you are not happy, rant and rave on here.
If you are happy, rant and rave on the happy page!!
I am happy (if thats the right word) to read rants about the council, but only after people have tried the direct route.
Anyone is entitled to opinion, and I personally find it interesting to read the different way some things can be interpreted, but we can't demand people reply on this site (whether it be a missed opportunity or not).
Bert, you have always been the perfect gentleman on this site and I thank you for bringing to my attention that I appear to be becoming over sensitive to the PC..............utterly non intentional I can assure you. |
any comments and views listed above are those of myself personally and not as a Parish Councillor, and in no way reflect opinions of the Parish Council or any other professional bodies |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 22:15:45
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There is no sensitivity Bert, nor is there any opportunity to be missed if it is stated in Parish Councillors' 'contracts' that they are not allowed to join in on a forum like this.
The matter really also was 'dealt with' some months ago when it became obvious that APC had no intention of contributing. I originated this thread because it seemed it was not so obvious to some and wanted to put it to rest, it was getting boring as well.
The PC office registered here but didn't post and the question of why has been asked over and over and over and over. The knife is in and it's being twisted, but the answer is never going to come. It's history - move on FHS!
There's no contact info in your profile - just drop in for a coffee (fresh, none of your instant stuff) we do know who you are anyway, it's a village!
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 10:15:32
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BFA. I fully appreciate you know who I am, I don't know why you kept suggesting that I and others are "anonymous." I attended many PC meetings, as you well know, as you and Patty had suggested.
You are way over the top to say .... "The knife is in and it's being twisted." Total exageration of the situation.
I and others have merely asked the obvious question, ...Why.
However, I agree that this subject has run its course, I will try not to mention it again.
Let's hope some others can initiate alternative subjects where we can all agree, and reside in harmony. |
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