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NickR60
Average Member
46 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 17:13:29
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I have to say I am appalled today at the state of the roads and pavements in Angmering. Have the council/highways not gritted here? The car was sliding allover the road, and the pavements especially by Stitches were a real cause for concern. I can appreciate we can't dictate the weather but some planning/due care for the public would be nice.
Seems to be the same in Worthing too, I think A&E will be busy today/tonight with broken limbs... |
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Stonechipper
Average Member
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 17:27:24
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The argument is that it's freak weather for this area. I hope the council don't spend a fortune on being prepared for all eventualities. A little bit of care is all that is required. People can assess the risks for themselves and those who don't need to take the risk should stay indoors until the risk has passed. It's not like a two month Scandinavian freeze. It will only last a couple of days at most.
Driving in these conditions is quite safe if you take your time, drive smoothly and allow plenty of margin.
Sure, the council could spend money on snow clearing equipment, salt and the associated manpower but why bother when it's only needed a couple of times each decade?
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 18:22:06
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[quote]Originally posted by Stonechipper
Driving in these conditions is quite safe if you take your time, drive smoothly and allow plenty of margin.
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Quite right Stonechipper. But I have to say I've seen the most appalling driving skills today. People accelerating hard and braking hard. Frightening stuff. Will they never learn ? |
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 18:33:44
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Just had a look at Neil's excellent photos on the news page. Interesting to note tho that the only road that appears to be fairly clear of snow and slush is on Ham Manor. Must be good living on a private estate...even the snow daren't hang around. hehe. Only joking folks,  |
Edited by - John on 18 Dec 2009 18:35:59 |
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jonah890
Average Member
39 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 19:25:32
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| Someone i spoke to today had gone to the parish council to ask about this and was given the telephone number for West Sussex CC as it was not in there remit. He spoke to to wscc and was told there did not grit pavements as resources do not allow this, but if he got in contact with parish council they might be able to have a grit bin installed. The pavement from Winchester house around to stitches was very bad as it is on a slope. |
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NickR60
Average Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 20:04:04
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I don't agree that driving is 'safe' if taken slowly even braking from 5mph with ample distance can cause a slide, but I do agree 95% of drivers fail to adjust to the conditions.
However, the pavements in place are very dangerous indeed even if walking at snail's pace - they are literally an ice rink. I believe in Germany it is law for home owners and shop keepers to maintain the patch outside of their premises, this is a good idea IMO. I wouldn't have a problem spending a little money each winter to do my bit to maintain safety. Just feel for (one would assume) the high number of oap's who have slipped and fallen over and will now spend Christmas in a hospital bed.
A grit bin for shop keepers situated somewhere sensible in the village would be a great idea I think, long as it is hidden somewhere suitable! |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 21:54:03
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The first thing I did this morning was sweep away the snow from the (private) patio in front of our shop door. This served to compact some of it in to ice, so I scraped that away.
What I couldn't do was dry it and without any grit/salt I became concerned that I may be actually making it more dangerous if it were to freeze.
Here's an interesting article.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453039.stm
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Guiseppe
Average Member
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2009 : 09:53:16
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Very scary experience dropping my Grandaughter off (on foot) to St Wilfred's school ( Arundel Rd.) on Friday morning 9 a.m.The road was like an ice rink with peak traffic and schoolchildren everywhere, yet I witnessed a couple of cars travelling at normal speed ( approx 30 MPH)as though conditions were perfect heading into the village just by the school. One felt that one touch of the brake and they would be in an out of control skid with consequences that don't bear thinking about - very scary giving a feeling of foreboding in the pit of the stomach !
Some drivers get behind a wheel of their car and irrespective of driving conditions immediately dissappear into their own selfish world
which shuts out risk and great danger to others around them. |
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2009 : 07:37:54
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I can appreciate that it almost impossible to grit every side road or lane around the village. However I'm amazed that even roads on a bus route have not been gritted.
Watching the buses slide sideways down Chantryfield Road towards Arundel Road is scary to say the least. |
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 19:16:11
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| Even though there has been little or no gritting in our village I can't help thinking that the council will use it as a reason to whack up our council tax come April. |
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Mr Growser
Average Member
United Kingdom
81 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2010 : 20:19:37
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I am appalled at the lack of gritting on main Roads in Angmering and consider this is an absolute disgrace which can be laid firmly at the doorstep of WSCC.
Not a word of contrition but this is par for the course in ZanuNewLab Britain.
Many folk are not prepared to risk life and limb on ungritted pavements and now we hear Government is scaling back national Gritting due to its`total incompetence in planning necessary resources.
And now we are told weather is set to get even more worse.
I give up.
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 09:51:53
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I agree that the lack of gritting in certain areas is ridiculous, however, it was established in December that the local Councils were responsible for attaining their own stockpiles - so I do not feel we can blame the government about failing to deal with the issue, many councils are run by other parties besides Labour.
I do not mean this as a political view as at present none of the main parties have impressed me enough to gain my vote.
I would think that the cost to the NHS and Industry through extra hospitalisations and lost working days would far outstrip the cost of adequate gritting.
Had this crazy thought, under road heating - remember I am a bit thick - but could it work. |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2010 : 10:16:43
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Compost is correct, Local Councils are responsible for obtaining and retaining their stockpile of salt / grit. It is a matter of judgement and risk management.
The impression I got on the news this morning (9/12) however, is that this Government have told Councils that those with very small amounts of salt left, through poor planning, must be topped up first,to the disadvantage of those that have planned correctly.
What is the point of planning well and to the advantage of its residents, if Councils who plan badly, are going to get preferential treatment from Government. I do not like to bring politics into it either but this is a political issue, and this is yet another example of socialism. |
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doug
Junior Member
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 11:01:44
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I wonder how the negative posters on here would deal with the situation
The met office completely failed to predict this, thus it could not be planed for
the high way agency grits motorways and major arterial routes
wscc grits A roads school routes and bus routes
The local parish councils have a choice to Pay for gritting in local shopping areas.
How do you plan for the unplanable simply you dont instead of moaning and raising petitions that no one will look at get proactive and dont waste time moaning clear the pavements and drive ways that affront ones properties and buisness's or HELP others.
simply put stop being nimbys and little Englanders get a broom and shovel and do your bit.
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 11:19:42
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Hopefully I'm not one of the negative posters - but have thought about how, if I was to plan the gritting,would i manage it.
Not with standing what the met office predict/fail to predict, I would think "ahh its nearly the end of October - better see if we have enough salt/grit in the depots in case during the winter months we are required to grit roads". "Should really have done this a few months ago - to ensure we are not then battling for supplies"
I am not a genius, but would imagine those paid to do this type of planning are aware that Snow, Sleet and severe weather can be a feature of an English winter.
If the met office fail to predict, well, I am sure that the white stuff on the ground gives a good indication that you may need to get the lorries out !!!!! |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 11:41:31
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Well said Compost.
The clue is in the job title "Planners" but unfortunately this has become a bit of a joke & now seems to mean overpaid,underworked civil servants with little,if any common sense.
Whilst many would be prepared to follow Doug's advice, to clear it ourselves, the crazy laws that place legal liabilities onto such volunteers should anybody slip on cleared surfaces & pursue financial compensation means that more and more people are reluctant to become involved.
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Stonechipper
Average Member
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 12:09:48
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Bram, please don't believe the myths about clearing snow and being sued. It's simply not as likely as you are led to believe. Even if someone did attempt to blame you for a fall, they would find it very difficult to successfully sue you as it would have to be proved that your actions were malicious.
I've cleared snow from the pavement in my street every time it has lain this winter, safe in the knowledge that my actions are carried out with the best intentions. There isn't a lawyer in the land who could prove otherwise.
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doug
Junior Member
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2010 : 14:38:51
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[quote]Originally posted by compost
Hopefully I'm not one of the negative posters - but have thought about how, if I was to plan the gritting,would i manage it.
Not with standing what the met office predict/fail to predict, I would think "ahh its nearly the end of October - better see if we have enough salt/grit in the depots in case during the winter months we are required to grit roads". "Should really have done this a few months ago - to ensure we are not then battling for supplies"
I am not a genius, but would imagine those paid to do this type of planning are aware that Snow, Sleet and severe weather can be a feature of an English winter.
Grit does not work well once the snow has fallen it needs vehicular movement on it to activate the salt salt only slows freezing it does not thaw ice.
planning was done sufficient stocks were held for the winter how do you predict weather severity when even the professionals ie the met office cannot forecast the weather.
do you hold infinite amounts of grit, grit spreading lorries, drivers in reserve at huge expence for the incalcuable? money the county cannot afford.
Or do you use what resources you have to keep open the arterial routes to allow food deliveries to the shops. man routes open for emergency vehicles?.
as for little villages like our own we do not have an infinite parish budget to pay for gritting when this excessive, so locals should help where possible.
I am sure that the planners will have done their jobs if you look at a mean average of the weather over the past thirty years, would you place an order for more resources than the mean average x3? I think not. Its just bad weather one off we all need to muck in and not simply blame bad planning.
ps my scottish relatives have been snowed in in perthshire for 5 weeks no gritters no deliveries no nothing we are lucky |
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 07:01:19
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Hi Doug,
My point in my original response on this subject was that adequate gritting or even excessive gritting would be a cheaper option than the cost to the NHS in extra hospitalisations, lost working days and probably the now likely rise in Insurance costs.
From the info in your response I assume you are connected to the task of ensuring that sufficient stocks are held, and thank you for the update that stocks were at a level to cope.
Being snowed in for 5 weeks was probably nice for the first day or two then I expect it to be a nightmare. However you could always mention to them the broom and shovel resolution. (Meant light heartedly). Hope they get clear soon |
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doug
Junior Member
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2010 : 08:54:33
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hi compost
I totally agree that the nhs costs must be exceptional in the current circumstances i do not beleive that gritting would solely solve the situation yes it helps but can we really grit every path and roadway?
more the issue i would suggest is the complete lack of common sense of people venturing out in the snow and ice. ie i helped a lady back to her feet outside the church she was wearing smooth soled fashion shoes.
I am affraid thet the nanny state has pushed so much 'elf n safety' our way that unless people have the obvious ringing in their ears then they simply cannot cope with any thing more than the cosseted little worlds that they find themselves pidgeon holed in.
Doug (house husband/ carpenter/ commenter on life)
Common sense R.I.P
ps the relatives have now been out as a village with jcb's and heavy snow moving equipment + shovels and brooms and are now reconected with the out side world |
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jammer
Senior Member
172 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2010 : 07:23:35
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Doug,
You are speking sense! Well done!
I am fed up of people on these forums who seem to come on it simply to try and find things to moan about and people to blame for things.
What happened to people being able to make sensible decisions for themselves.
If your path needs clearing, clear it.
If you are advised not to go out / drive unless you have to dont do it.
Put some sensible clothes on and go carefully!
Its the weather, its nobodys fault, deal with it!!!!! |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2010 : 00:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by jammer
I am fed up of people on these forums who seem to come on it simply to try and find things to moan about and people to blame for things.
Absolutely!
Now then, all this salt on the roads has meant I have had to have my car cleaned thoroughly several times to get rid of all that corrosive muck - why should I have to pay for that?
Then they gritted the pavements and after the snow and ice went away all that grit was left and people are bringing it in to our place on their feet and it's a nightmare sweeping it all up.
The council should sweep up all that grit and have 'de-salting' lorries on the roads after the thaw. It's just not on and I demand that Gordon Brown himself registers on this forum and apologises for this mess that our roads and pavements have been left in and suggests some sort of compensation.
I am kidding of course |
Edited by - BFA on 16 Jan 2010 00:05:25 |
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jammer
Senior Member
172 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2010 : 09:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by BFA
quote:
Originally posted by jammer
I am fed up of people on these forums who seem to come on it simply to try and find things to moan about and people to blame for things.
Absolutely!
Now then, all this salt on the roads has meant I have had to have my car cleaned thoroughly several times to get rid of all that corrosive muck - why should I have to pay for that?
Then they gritted the pavements and after the snow and ice went away all that grit was left and people are bringing it in to our place on their feet and it's a nightmare sweeping it all up.
The council should sweep up all that grit and have 'de-salting' lorries on the roads after the thaw. It's just not on and I demand that Gordon Brown himself registers on this forum and apologises for this mess that our roads and pavements have been left in and suggests some sort of compensation.
I am kidding of course
lol  |
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Cazd
Junior Member
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 17:15:54
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Couple of points - firstly, all NHS trusts reported only minimal rises in admissions to A & E depts during the now famous freeze-up, and most of the snow-related injuries were acquired whilst taking part in leisure pursuits(tobogganing, etc). RTA's fell during this period, probably due to fewer motorists venturing out, whilst those of us who had no choice due to work commitments drove sensibly.
Secondly, this was an incredibly rare occurance (the whole country affected at once). I personally don't want my local authority to be wasting money on stockpiling grit "just in case". At the Coop on one icy day a gentleman was asking people to sign a petition "if you care about the elderly etc etc". Apparently he was doing this for several hours. His time would have been better spent organising a few more pairs of hands and clearing the paths himself, the way people used to do things.
When ungrateful people moan about "bad" public service, just ask them which public service they would take the money from. Our public services are in general excellent, and staffed by individuals who are dedicated to serving the public. Lets start to praise them instead of constantly moaning.
The vast majority of the Worlds population live in what we would call abject poverty and yet they tend to have a much healthier "lets just get on with it" approach to life. We over-privileged westerners really need to get a grip.
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We're all in this together - Gods name is irrelevant. |
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doug
Junior Member
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 19:40:45
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Cazd well said i thought common sense was dead
i also met mr petition in the coop a completly mad fellow with blinkered vision with absolutly no ability to discuss said lack of gritting in fact he became quite hostile when i put it to him how could every single walkway and road be gritted.
I do hope his despot, several days worth of petition foisting, madness paid off lol
the daft ole whotsit said and i quote " i've fallen over 3 times in the snow just today" as he stood there in gripless shoes. |
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BFA
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2010 : 22:42:05
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During that few really bad days I saw some mad people/things but the best two were a woman that came in to our shop in flip-flops because she'd just had a pedicure, and, whilst walking to work (because it was pointless driving) wearing hiking boots, 2 pr of socks, thermal long-Johns, jeans, thermal vest, shirt, jumper, fleece, Gortex jacket, gloves and silly hat......
......I watched a young lady in a lightweight trouser suit, open neck blouse, plenty of slap and bling and FOUR INCH STILLETOES - teeter to her car, fish out a purse from a very nice handbag, fish out a credit type card from said purse and started to attempt to remove about four inches of snow and ice from the windscreen with it.
I also met the nutty petitioner guy and suggested that gritting/salting wouldn't have much effect on 4" of snow - and pointed out that the gritters are pretty much on the ball when the temp drops, on major routes at least.
Established pretty quickly that the bee in his bonnet couldn't be reasoned with. Even if we'd had some freak tsunami - or a volcano or an earthquake, it would still be the council's fault.
So I humoured him by saying I'd sign next time I popped in to the co-op. I didn't, but I did see his petition - written in green and red felt pen, in illegible handwriting on a bit of cardboard box. Two or three signatures.
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Cazd
Junior Member
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2010 : 22:20:27
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| Oh Doug and BFA, I'm so glad I'm not alone! Am tittering quietly to myself at your replies, and yes, I did see the petition. Class. |
We're all in this together - Gods name is irrelevant. |
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DEGOO
Average Member
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 21:49:57
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| Oh how I wish I had seen the petition if it was that good, I would have let my son sign it with his big red crayon!!! |
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