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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
 Posted - 10 May 2009 : 20:10:42
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| Just wondering what everybody thinks about the recent leaks about MP expenses? |
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 20:50:10
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Well....just what can you say about these reports assuming they are true.
Some of the stuff these people have claimed for just beggers belief.
For me it's not just the big claims for housing allowance etc.(as appalling as that is)but the smaller items.
Assuming the reports are correct then they have claimed for...
A bottle of shampoo...
a packet of biscuits...
a pack of Kit Kat bars....
A pile of horse manure.....
A toilet seat...
They keep telling us that they have not broken any rules. Now that may well be true. However... to claim for such items is, to me, morally indefensible whatever the rules are.
There is no doubt in my mind that if anyone in a "normal" job claimed for things such as these then they would be sacked immediately. But these people get away with it.
It's interesting to note that it is Labour MPs who have been in the firing line so far and yet the Tories have not "made hay" over the matter. Must be because they know they are next !!!
I have said before on these forums that I no longer vote in any elections. I have not voted for over 20 years and I will never vote again.
Why would you given what we now know ????
Seems to me that one of the worst offenders is Jackie Smith (remember the hubby's porno films?) so will the good people of her constituency (Redditch) vote her in again next year? If they do then they deserve all they get.
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derekdainton
deleted
579 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 22:28:53
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| Surely, we need more people voting. Not less. Change will not be effected any other way. It's the power of the voter that's causing many MPs to be terrified right now. |
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patty
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
738 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 22:34:08
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It really is bordering on being unbelievable.
They may say they are not breaking any rules, but then, they made the rules!
Then of course, we have to remember the thousands more they have cost the taxpayer by fighting through the courts to not allow this type of thing to be disclosed.
When you take what an average business is NOT allowed to claim against tax, and how they could not fight a claim because they would have to pay the court fees, it all seems to be getting out of control.
They just seem to showing a total disrespect to everyone.
Not there for the job, but there for what they can get out of it.
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any comments and views listed above are those of myself personally and not as a Parish Councillor, and in no way reflect opinions of the Parish Council or any other professional bodies |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2009 : 07:58:46
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Has anyone noticed the BENEFIT THEFT ads on the telly have suddenly dissapeared?
Maybe it's just me, or is the case of THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.
I cannot understand how they seem to take no responsibility for their actions,
after all they preach NO IF's NO BUT's, or doesn't it apply to them.
And from what i can see that most own several million pound homes surely the could afford dog food/pot plants/shampoo/and a couple of loo seats.
I certainly don't know what the answers ar as to what should be done with them after all if we sack all the Mp's we have no Government.
I expect the usual will happen a lot of anouncements made, changes then back to hiding what they are doing.
But they will no doubt make it much harder for us to find out in future. |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2009 : 13:11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Angmeringite
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5305347/Nick-Herbert-claimed-stamp-duty-on-joint-home-MPs-expenses.html
Question is, will the sheep like populace of the SE be able to bring themselves to vote anything other than Conservative? I would have thought that this scandal offered the ideal opportunity to vote Lib Dem, Green or for an independent candidate offering to clean up Parliament.
On the specific point of Herbert's claim, I will be contacting him directly for a better explanation than 'not guilty govnor, it was in the rules'. Hopefully plenty more readers will do the same. However, pending his reply I'm slightly comforted by the fact that as he bought the Arundel property near to the top of the market there's little chance that he'll make a profit on it for quite a few years to come. |
Commuter |
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Mr Growser
Average Member
United Kingdom
81 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2009 : 18:47:30
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Have met Nick Herbert at Angmering Village Hall where he visits every year to talk to local electorate and have to say he seemed to be a distinct improvement on his predecessor willing to answer questions with sensible answers.
Wonder how he would respond to criticism of his claims for £10,825 when he bought house in Arundel some time after he was elected and then went on to claim £1,835 for monthly mortgage interest,totalling £22,720 a year.
When I was moved to a new location by my former company none of this was available to me or I suggest would have been to any of you AVL Readers and would have been thrown out by the Tax Man anyway.
No doubt the defence will be that it was all approved as being within " The Rules " but no sign of any " Moral Compass " at work here so thats all right then ??
Problem is what alternative do we have when we vote next year!
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Stonechipper
Average Member
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2009 : 21:15:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Growser
Problem is what alternative do we have when we vote next year!
Having seen the full extent of the benefits available, I'm considering standing in the next elections.  |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2009 : 21:38:36
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I seem to remember a certain Mr Brown going on recently about how a SOMETHING FOR NOTHING CULTURE was eroding our society.
Well i wonder who he was refering to? |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2009 : 11:49:29
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Whilst never a supporter of Thatcher & her policies I am pleasantly surprised to see a news item in the Daily Mail today where Norman Tebbitt is reported as advising voters not to vote for any major party candidates in the forthcoming EU elections to teach them a lesson for abusing expense allowances.
I am not naive enough to believe that this abuse has not been happening for decades but it is refreshing to see that even hardened politicians can see that the electorate have now had enough.
Perhaps his suggestion could be followed for Local & National elections as well since novices could probably not perform any worse than the current incumbents & newcomers will take a little while to work out the numerous moneymaking wrinkles that the present bunch seem to have perfected to a tee. |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2009 : 15:09:52
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An interesting website on individual Members of Parliament, including their use of expenses and allowances is at:-
www.theyworkforyou.com/mps/
The breakdown of the expenses / allowances by the Telegraph are based on these total figures for year 2007/08.
It makes interesting reading, without the breakdown currently provided by the Telegraph.
Each MP has his/her expenses list at the foot of each page.
It is quite interesting to see that a number of MP's have claimed the maximum Additional Costs Allowance ( ie second homes for MP's with Constituencies outside of London) This figure is £23,083. Quite astonishing that a person can charge an allowance to that exact figure.
Hazel Blears is one, Peter Bottomley, MP for Worthing West is also shown to have claimed the maximum.
Most are in the region of £20k - £23k. Nick Herbert's £22,720 was 247th highest claim, out of 645, indicating how many are between £22,720 - £23,083. Astonishing.
Looking at the list / table for a number of MP's, I am surprised that the Staffing Allowance has not raised more comment in the Telegraph. I appreciate there is not the absurd claims in this category, but most claims are in the region of £90k - £100k per year. Some however can get by with much less staffing expenditure.
I guess £90k will only pay for two, three or four employees, (assistants, researchers etc.) but it does take the full allowance / expenses up to the £150,000 region (plus basic salary).
It will be a very long time before the public forget about this sorry saga. |
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derekdainton
deleted
579 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2009 : 16:37:51
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| Norman Tebbit also said that whilst voters should not support the three main parties they should also not vote for the BNP. That leaves UKIP as an alternative. That would suit Norman very well, being an arch Euro-sceptic. |
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Voice of Reason
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 09:59:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Bert
An interesting website on individual Members of Parliament, including their use of expenses and allowances is at:-
www.theyworkforyou.com/mps/
I refer the honourable gentleman to the item Posted - 08 May 2009 : 09:49:59 some days ago under the forum topic “IS THIS SITE BECOMING TOO INSULAR”
I know this was in the wrong place but do try and keep up!
VoR
[:x)]
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 14:10:44
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V of R, my apols.
You're right, it was in the wrong place, but I will "try and keep up." |
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Voice of Reason
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 16:32:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Bert
V of R, my apols.
You're right, it was in the wrong place, but I will "try and keep up."
That's ok Bert I was only having a joke at your expence. 
VoR (MP) |
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Voice of Reason
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
521 Posts |
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 18:25:48
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Just watched Ann Widdecombe on the evening news in which she stated that if the expenses system was reduced too much then the only people who will be able to afford to go into politics will be the very wealthy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they receive a salary of £68000 (hands up who earns that much) and no doubt they will continue to be paid reasonable expenses as well.
Oh and I'm sure there will be the odd non executive directorship as well. Just to keep the wolf from the door !!! |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 21:12:15
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I am not an apologist for MP's, I am just as critical as anyone about the current expenses issue, but I do not think their basic salary is all that great for the job they do, or are supposed to do.
Look at the salary of some of the senior officials who work for local Councils, District and County Councils. Check out the salary of the Chief Executives and top departmental heads. Tax payers funded salaries. Higher salary than an MP. In many cases, much higher.
There was a spat on BBC 24 hour News yesterday or this morning, One of the News presenters was having a dig at Lord Foulks over the expenses issue, he was trying to defend the indefensible, but he raised the issue of MP's salary and the presenter kept digging. He than asked her how much the BBC pay her to present the BBC 24 hour News.
I was surprised she answered, but her answer was £92,000. Licence fee money.
Quite a lot of senior managers and above in the public and private sectors earn more than the basic salary of an MP.
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 22:15:48
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Angmeringite - You are correct that the adverts have disappeared - coincidence??
I am not the best at putting words to paper, but know that if I was to sign on and claim money fraudulently I would expect to go to prison.
However, I now feel that i can and when caught say sorry - may or may not pay it back, depends on the other cheats and what they want to do, and things will be okay.
Prison is the answer to this, as well as full refund of expenses.
Both main parties are as bad, not much noise from the Libs. I really think this could lead to votes either not being cast or placed with some smaller parties that could see the likes of BNP make advances in the political world. (Although they will have no foriegn travel claims!!!!) |
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Mr Angry
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1272 Posts |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2009 : 07:31:21
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I do hope these people do not get away with this and are forgiven.
Also they still have not really owned up to anything just saying errors and mistakes were made.
I'm sure that it is plain for anyone to see that most of them are thieves and FRAUDSTERS which in their own words makes them THEIVES.
Why not dissolve parliment and make up a new one from cross party mp's that haven't fiddled their expenses.
If there are any! |
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2009 : 08:11:36
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Bert... you are of course quite right about the MPs salary not being huge in this day and age.
The point I was making though (perhaps not very well) was about Ann Widdecombes comment about only wealthy people being able to afford to go into politics. To me that's nonsense.
Also.. on this mornings news it has come to light that one MP has been claiming mortgage interest on a loan which was paid off in full some time ago. Appears that he claimed £800 per month for 18 months after it was paid off. Seems to me that this is the worst one yet. How can anyone possibly forget that they have paid off their mortgage?
No matter what excuses they have trotted out in recent days this one is totally indefensible.
It is out and out FRAUD.
Criminal proceedings should be started against him. |
Edited by - John on 14 May 2009 08:15:20 |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2009 : 10:07:02
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John, I agree, I think this particular MP, is in very serious trouble.
Also, just to balance things out, I saw the Ann Widdecombe interview. She actually said, two groups will be the only ones able to afford to go into politics.
The wealthy, and those sponsored by Trade Unions.
The Metropolitan Police have received a number of individual complaints regarding some of these expenses issues. Doubless the name of Elliott Morley MP will be added to the list. |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 08:32:09
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They are a bunch of theiving lying cheats sack them amd put them in prison.
As if it was any of us,that's exactly what they would do.
They still won't release the official reciepts! WHY?
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John
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 09:44:06
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What gets me is that they seem to think that if they say sorry and pay back some of the money then that makes it all OK.
Well in my book it doesn't.
According to a survey released today 2 out of 3 people now think there should be an immediate general election.
But who do you vote for ???? |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 13:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by John
What gets me is that they seem to think that if they say sorry and pay back some of the money then that makes it all OK.
Well in my book it doesn't.
According to a survey released today 2 out of 3 people now think there should be an immediate general election.
But who do you vote for ????
There must be plenty of candidates in the wings, so I'd be happy to vote for existing parties - just not current MPs (unless they can convince me that they personally are not involved in the current scandal). When I travel on business my firm limits me to budget hotels - which are fine - with rooms often as good as more expensive places - just lack pools, bars, mini-bars etc which are hardly essential. Anyone willing now to stand for Parliament should be happy to live on the £65k salary (over 3x average income?) plus a basic allowance for staying in London in a budget hotel. In the longer term, the taxpayer should fund a reasonably comfortable hostel plus office building in which MPs can live and work without any need to claim living expenses. Indeed, this should be far more suitable than the relative's spare bedroom from which one government minister has been undertaking her vital state work. |
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Rosebud
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 13:55:10
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| Has anyone else noticed that while all these MPs are being exposed for their spending sprees, no one as yet asked Gordon Brown or David Cameron about their expenses claims! |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 14:31:43
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The constant justification seems to be "it was a mistake,due to pressure of work or a misunderstanding of the system." except for those brazen enough to insist that they are entitled to the perks. The question they should ask themselves surely should be "Is this expense necessary for me to carry out my duties as an MP?"
If these people cannot understand the system or fill in an expense claim form correctly then how exactly are they fit to govern a country?
Do they live on another planet unaffected by the hardships of the current economic recession which has affected ordinary people much more than the rich & powerful or are they devoid of any moral values?
Whether or not they repay monies wrongly claimed this issue has now become one of trust & honour & i.m.o. they have shown that few,if any of them, are fit to occupy their jobs.
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2009 : 15:26:34
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quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
The constant justification seems to be "it was a mistake,due to pressure of work or a misunderstanding of the system." except for those brazen enough to insist that they are entitled to the perks. The question they should ask themselves surely should be "Is this expense necessary for me to carry out my duties as an MP?"
If these people cannot understand the system or fill in an expense claim form correctly then how exactly are they fit to govern a country?
Do they live on another planet unaffected by the hardships of the current economic recession which has affected ordinary people much more than the rich & powerful or are they devoid of any moral values?
Whether or not they repay monies wrongly claimed this issue has now become one of trust & honour & i.m.o. they have shown that few,if any of them, are fit to occupy their jobs.
Watching Question Time, Any Questions etc I think that it is finally beginning to dawn on even the most thick headed of MPs that those who have misused the system have no way out. The 'too busy', 'I didn't understand the rules' or was 'only following the crowd' etc excuses just make them look incompetent, lacking in independent intellectual and moral fibre and unfit to run a corner shop, let alone a country. The alternative of trying to justify some of the claims just makes them look corrupt. Even the worst reoffending criminal knows when caught bang to rights that the only option is to plead guilty, avoid wasting the court's time and hope for a reduction in sentence as a result. Whether or not any MPs are guilty of criminal offences remains to be seen, but many already have their 'honour' in tatters and should do the decent thing - own up, declare that they won't be standing for re-election and so give their party time to select an alternative, taint-free candidate. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 12:52:33
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| As a side issue - with the upcoming Euro & local elections I have been receiving the inevitable party political flyers for the smaller parties i.e. UKIP,BNP,etc. but nothing from Labour or Conservatives. Are they so complacent & contemptuous of the public that they don't think that they need to try by working for peoples vote? With the recent scandalous revelations I would have thought that they should be trying extra hard to convince us that they are not the dishonest,freeloading bunch that we are seeing in the press & tv. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 13:19:55
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| I've had a leaflet from our present Conservative County Councillor, Deborah Urquhart. |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 14:20:05
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I too have had a leaflet from the Conservative County Councillor, Deborah Urquhart, in respect of the West Sussex County Council election, but no others.
In respect of the European elections, it is of course a very different situation. We are talking about a Constituency of the South East of England, over six million voters and a proportional representation system of electing MEP's.
We may well see leaflets from the main parties for the European election during the next two weeks, but I would not be entirely surprised if we do not.
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 17:49:32
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| Must be bad if the mainstream parties are more embarrassed than the likes of the BNP to be seen out delivering leaflets. As usual, the BNP leaflet delivered to my place went straight in the bin, although not before I glanced at the photo of the spitfire on the front. Relatives of mine who fought in WWII will be turning in their graves. Spitfire pilots etc hardly fought against fascists intent on judging people irrationally on the grounds of race, religion etc to have the image used in this way. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2009 : 16:19:26
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Many of my family also fought both in WW1& 2 but I doubt whether they would think that the freedoms & ideals they & others risked their lives for are reflected in the society we currently live in particularly with the disgraceful behaviour of our politicians.
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2009 : 18:21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
Many of my family also fought both in WW1& 2 but I doubt whether they would think that the freedoms & ideals they & others risked their lives for are reflected in the society we currently live in particularly with the disgraceful behaviour of our politicians.
My strong dislike of the BNP and what it stands for doesn't equate to a vote of confidence for any of today's elected politicians caught with their snouts in the trough. I'd be happy if ALL current MPs found to have abused the expenses system (spirit or letter) were de-selected and replaced by an untainted candidate. That's the only way I'll be able to vote for the party I support without tainted personalities getting the the way. |
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Euphrosene
Average Member
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 15:19:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Bert
...It will be a very long time before the public forget about this sorry saga.
Jolly well hope not. There is considerable anger and, for once, the term 'the nation' is quite apt. In this case, being appalled and angered.
Not one of these moral bankrupts should be let off the hook.
Those MPs who claimed less should have made this invidious practice known to the public a long time ago.
On the plus side, there is a brilliant opportunity to create fresh parties and new stringent sets of rules, including minimum terms.
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www.euphrosenelabon.com |
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Euphrosene
Average Member
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 15:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Bert
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Look at the salary of some of the senior officials who work for local Councils, District and County Councils. Check out the salary of the Chief Executives and top departmental heads. Tax payers funded salaries. Higher salary than an MP. In many cases, much higher.
...
He than asked her how much the BBC pay her to present the BBC 24 hour News.
I was surprised she answered, but her answer was £92,000. Licence fee money.
Quite a lot of senior managers and above in the public and private sectors earn more than the basic salary of an MP.
All money coming from the public purse and all should be restrained and have their salaries reduced, especially local councils and the BBC.
They've all turned into Sheriffs of Nottingham, beating more money out of the taxpayer to pay for their luxuries while giving us little in return. |
www.euphrosenelabon.com |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 14:21:19
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| I see they are still at it, Nick Gibb still claiming for gardening and tv licence! Still what do we expect from the politicians lining their own pockets again! Whilst benefit claiments are called scroungers and theives these people who have been caught with their hand well and truly in the cookie jar are allowed to pay money back saying they have just mad a mistake, NO IFs No BUTs Wasn't it? |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 14:46:19
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http://mpsallowances.parliament.uk/mpslordsandoffices/hocallowances/allowances-by-mp/
So as they cut everything else they are giving themselves more eh!
Relaxing the rules for themselves while tightening the rules for sick and disable people. I'm not at all suprised as i have lived through the tories before and have a very long memory.
The rich get richer the poor get poorer FACT! |
Edited by - Angmeringite on 21 Mar 2011 08:35:07 |
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