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anthony
Average Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 15:08:17
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| Bram, in the case of BG, I have already given you examples of further measures that could be put in place so I am not going to repeat myself. Suffice to say that, if a proper 20mph traffic calming scheme (and by proper I dont mean two pinch points several hundred yards apart and a 20 sign) were installed speeds would be significantly reduced. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 16:15:24
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony
The 20mph speed limit isn't working because the traffic calming scheme as it stands is insufficient. The pinchpoint system in Nursery Road is ignored by many drivers who, rather than wait until an oncoming car has passed, set off anyway with the hope of pulling into a gap in parked cars. And then there is the idiot who persists on parking just in front of the island obscuring the view of oncoming vehicles. Double yellows all the way along nursery road, two plateaus (speed tables) like those in William Olders Road and priority signs so that those travelling east have priority would greatly reduce speed and risk of head on collisions. As for how its paid for, thats the job of the bodies elected (and otherwise) who supposedly represent us to decide. Personally, if it meant an increase in my council tax to achieve this then I would have no issue.
Anthony
I believe that yellow lines & traffic signs require prior adoption otherwise they are not enforceable but I agree that speed tables would have been better than the pinchpoints.However such comprehensive measures are not in place elsewhere so why on BG.Without consistency in policy the system will never be respected or accepted.
Why were the Developers allowed to build roads in this way when agreements for adoption already existed. Surely some bright spark in local authority or NHBC (the Approved Inspector for Building Control)could have pointed the flaw out at an earlier stage to allow corrections. |
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anthony
Average Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 17:19:13
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Bram
This thread is about the adoption of roads on Bramley Green hence my posts being particualr to this location.
My experience of NHBC building inspectors is that when it comes to civils and structural elements they dont know their arse from their elbow. They may be able to pull a contractor up on incorrectly matched face bricks or an ill-fitting door but when it comes to road alignments or building foundation design their knowledge is, on the whole, woefully lacking. Fortunately I dont know of any groundworks contractor that would risk cutting corners to such an extent that a house is going to subside or a drainage system is going to fail or a road surface is going to prematurely fall apart as the potential cost to their business would be great. With or without NHBC inspectors work is largely done in the way it should be and to the required spec. There will always be a number of defects that arise (as with any newly manufactured product) but the vast majority occur within the first year and are easily dealt with.
Its generally not regarded as being worth the paper its printed on but I wonder if the NHBC 10 year warranty extends to the roads and drainage of a newly built estate. May be worth investigating. |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 22:07:50
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Anthony, I think you may well be able to get assistance from NHBC.
To the best of my knowledge, circumstances that I am aware of, were as follows.
I live in a road, fairly new properties and roads, 4-6 years old. Main part of road is tarmac, where we live, but there are three small inlets/cul de sac, each of which services 3 or 4 houses, where the developer laid an unsuitable road surface. (Relatively small areas.)
The residents of properties in these areas attempted to get the developer to replace the surface, but they did not do so initially.
A group of those residents wrote to NHBC, explaining the situation, and NHBC called and inspected the areas.
NHBC agreed with the residents and contacted the developer and asked them to replace the road surface.
The road surface was replaced, by the developer, as required, to the satisfaction of residents and NHBC.
This would indicate that NHBC do have some responsibility and influence over developers re. roads, drains etc.. so there would certainly be the possibility that they may well be able to assist BG residents in this matter. Certainly worth a try. |
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veryangry
New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 13:03:23
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I feel the same way.
Cars are racing around and we also have a lot of youths riding mopeds around at high speeds ignoring the highway code.
I feel that the situation will get worse when the community centre opens as there will no be sufficent car parking when events such as partys or wedding receptions are held there.
The council need to do something quicky, and the Police have a duty as well to enforce the Highway code.
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyGirl
Does anybody know if the roads in Bramley Green are ever going to be adopted? The development has been finished now for nearly 5 years and still no sign of anything happening. How long before a serious and completely avoidable accident happens because residents park on the pavement, in front of give-way signs and basically cannot be bothered to park in the allotted parking spaces by their garages? WE have had several near misses lately with cars speeding down Bramley Way and nearly colliding with on-coming vehicles. If anybody has info on this, some news would be much appreciated.
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GreenFields
Average Member
United Kingdom
65 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 20:46:19
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Solution to Nursery Road would be to create a long parking bay on the south side and remove the trees. This would then allow 2 lanes of traffic. A few speed humps would slow the traffic down.
(Yes the trees look nice but but they're opposite a line of cars anyway).
Or people don't park there at all. Like they told us when we bought the house's. BUT who in there right mind will park in a garage compound and walk 100 yards to your front door when you can walk under 10.
Ideas should be collected from the residents who drive on the estate every day.
Some thing should be done as it doesn't currently work. Most people on the estate at some point have looked down that long row of cars and thought 'can I make it to the gap in the cars before the car coming the other way pulls out' quick floor it.
Back to the point of the thread - Yes the roads need to be adopted. Then we can have a new thread on here - Why aren't the council repairing our roads  . |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 08:46:50
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One of the posters on this topic wrote the other day about confronting a lorry driver on the site and was told to "F off". The posting also contained other comments.
This posting has now completely disappeared. Do other posters recall these comments and who wrote it? bgresident in his posting of 7 August refers to this earlier posting. It is simply not acceptable to do delete postings. Continuity of the topic is now partially lost. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 09:49:36
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| My sincere apologies. It must have been the posting by GrumpyGirl on 7 August who refered to an incident when two residents tackled a lorry driver. Ignore my posting. |
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Nigel
Senior Member
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 10:18:41
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PERSONAL STATEMENT
I would like to thank all the residents of Angmering who attended last nights Parish Council Meeting. It was reassuring that they took the time and effort to come along and speak, please don't let this be a 'one off'.A Parish Council can work much better if it has constructive input from its residents, whether critical or not.
Again, thank you.
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Never judge what you don't understand. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 10:30:16
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The admission by APC Chairman at the meeting last night (10/8/09) that they had no knowledge of the transfer of land rights to WSCC in 2008 or information regarding the School site construction traffic & were powerless to intervene on behalf of Angmering villagers in these matters or that of BG road adoption is appalling.
Although related to another thread - The Pond, he also seemed to have difficulty in confirming whose responsibilty that was as well.
Perhaps APC need reminding of their responsibilities:-
Parish councils currently have a limited number of duties but they all impact directly on the community. The following are all under the remit of local councils:
* Allotments
* Burial Grounds, Cemeteries, Churchyards and Crematoria
* Bus Shelters
* Bye-laws – the power to make bye-laws concerning:baths and washhouses (swimming pools), cycle parks, mortuaries and pleasure grounds
* Clocks – public clocks can be provided and must be maintained
* Community Centres, Conference Centres, Halls, Public Buildings
* Drainage – of ditches and ponds
* Entertainment and the Arts
* Footpaths
* General Spending – parish councils can spend a limited amount of money on anything they deem of benefit to the community that is not covered by the other specific responsibilities described in this list
* Gifts – parish councils may accept gifts
* Highways – lighting, parking places, right to enter into discussions about new roads and road widening, consent of parish council required for diversion or discontinuation of highway, traffic signs and other notices, tree planting and verge maintenance
* Land – acquisition and sale of
* Legal proceedings – power to prosecute and defend any legal proceedings in the interests of the community, power to take part in any public enquiry
* Litter - provision of litter-bins and support for any anti-litter campaigns
* Planning – parish councils must be notified of, and display for residents, any planning applications for the area. Any comments submitted to the planning authority by the parish council must be taken into account
* Postal and Telecommunication Facilities – power to pay a public telecommunications operator any loss sustained in providing services in that area
* Public conveniences – provision and maintenance of public toilets
* Recreation – provision of recreation grounds, public walkways, pleasure grounds, open spaces, village greens, gymnasiums, playing fields, holiday camps and boating ponds
* Rights of Way – footpath and bridleway maintenance
* Seats (public)
* Signs – danger signs, place names and bus stops signs
* Tourism – financial contributions to any local tourist organisations allowed
* Traffic Calming
* War Memorials
* Water Supply – power to utilise stream, well or spring water and to provide facilities for general use
(www.localgov.co.uk) |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 11:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
The admission by APC Chairman at the meeting last night (10/8/09) that they had no knowledge of the transfer of land rights to WSCC in 2008 or information regarding the School site construction traffic & were powerless to intervene on behalf of Angmering villagers in these matters or that of BG road adoption is appalling.
Although related to another thread - The Pond, he also seemed to have difficulty in confirming whose responsibilty that was as well.
Perhaps APC need reminding of their responsibilities:-
You seem to be mixing up responsibilities/obligations with powers. The legislation I've seen with regard to Parish councils tends to empower them to do or be involved in certain things, but this is not the same as obliging them to do them. As I claim no expertise in this area, perhaps the clerk to the Angmering Parish Council could outline their interpretation of the relevant law. |
Commuter |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 13:38:33
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Commuter
If APC do not feel obliged to represent BG residents in matters obviously deemed important to them then perhaps they are not fit for purpose & if their abysmal performance at last nights meeting is typical then they should all consider resigning. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 14:33:41
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BRAM, I seem to have been at a different meeting to you last night. Firstly, let me make it quite clear that I have enormous sympathy with the residents of BG on the road adoption problem and the lorries now coming into BG to access the 6th Form building site.
However, some of the statements you have made are simply incorrect.
You state: "APC Chairman said at the meeting last night (10/8/09) that they had no knowledge of the transfer of land rights to WSCC in 2008". He did not say that at all. What he said that the APC were aware of the land rights transfer but were not a party to any discussions etc as this was a matter between the WSCC and the BG Consortium, and the APC were never consulted.
You also state the APC Chairman said that they "were powerless to intervene on behalf of Angmering villagers in these matters or that of BG road adoption". What he said was just the opposite, saying that they would liaise with residents to ascertain their needs and write to the parties concerned strongly representing the views of all BG residents.
As you know, I do not agree with he APC all of the time, but sitting as a neutral at the meeting, I thought that the APC were listening to residents and taking action as much as was in their powers to do. I therefore feel your extreme comments are most unfair. What we need is a stable Council and do not want any more councillors resigning.
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 14:38:55
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| BRAM, All I can do is completely agree with you. Last night's Parish Council Meeting was a real eye opener and how depressing it was to see the Chairman squirm when asked pertinent questions from the floor. Also it just shows how impotent the PC is in that nobody from Arun District Council nor more importantly the WSCC could be bothered to make an appearance. My impression is that the Chairman is hoping, in time, that we will all disappear back into some kind abyss. After the meeting think the residents are more determined than ever to get things brought to their attention and hopefully acted upon. What we would give for a proactive council. There was one particular councillor there last night who didn't even speak for the entire meeting of 2 hours. What on earth was she there for? |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 14:59:44
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Neil
Sorry to disagree but I'm sure that what was said was that APC were not aware, prior to the recent letter from WSCC, about any transfer of rights in the land transfer of 2008. If they were why did they not then advise BG residents long before now particularly with regard to right of access to the school building site?
He also said that APC were unable to intervene in any decision by WSCC. The words I believe were something like "we are talking about WSCC."
I sensed that he finally agreed to write to WSCC because of the pressure of opinion from the public floor.
I agree that a stable, but effective APC are needed a.s.a.p.
On a brighter note I have just received the attached email from Southern Water:
11 August 2009
Contact:
Tel: 01903 272487
Fax: 01903 535060
Dear xxxxxxxx
Sewer status in Windmill Close, Angmering
Following our telephone conversation, our Network Development contractors, Atkins, have confirmed that the sewers serving Windmill Close were adopted on 16 June 2008.
If you have any further concerns or enquiries, please contact me again on the above telephone number.
Yours sincerely,
Ms D Ratcliffe
Senior Customer Relations Advisor
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 16:44:24
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| GrumpyGirl, I think the councillor to whom you are referring is very new to the APC and is still feeling her way. It would be unreasonable to expect her to have much knowledge of the many BG issues at this stage and to be in a position to be able to make any useful comments. |
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240felicia
Senior Member
172 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 23:51:35
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I am reliably informed that last night was the most public in attendance at an Angmering Parish Council meeting for some time.
I thought it was great to see so many people actually taking an interest and making the time to get involved in community issues.
Thanks Neil for your response to Grumpygirl's observation which I assume was about me... succinctly put, it's what I would have said myself had I not been busy all evening at the environment committee meeting.
Here it is less succinctly... I know that the people on Angmering Parish Council are a collection of individuals who behind the scenes actually do work hard for the benefit of the whole village.
Established councillors have prior knowledge on issues. It would not be appropriate for someone new (like myself) to interject when there are others better equipped with this prior knowledge to respond to questions in the room.
Not every member of the public spoke at the meeting either, I don't see you questioning why they were there.
It was because they care about the issues raised last night.
In my opinion that is surely why people (like myself) join the Parish Council, because they are pro-active about the issues that affect Angmering.
There is nothing constructive in criticising somebody who cares about the same things as you do.
(post edited to amend typo) |
hello nice to meet you ;o) |
Edited by - 240felicia on 12 Aug 2009 00:07:17 |
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 20:35:41
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Sorry to ask, but why does the road need to be adopted by WSCC. What stops a private consortium undertaking the task.
May seem a silly question to most, but i am unaware of any regulations that stop this from happening. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 21:04:39
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Compost
I have lived on several such estates.
You would soon see the difference because private landlords/managing agents charge residents an annual maintenance charge for roads,verges,open spaces, etc. plus additional charges to meet repairs as they arise.These charges increase each year in line with or often above the RPI resulting in large surpluses accruing which only benefit the managing agents.
In addition houseowners continue to pay the normal Council Tax charge levied by the local authorities. This is what companies such as Hargreaves, Taylor Wimpey,David Wilson etc. tend to do on new estates. Effectively houseowners are therefore paying twice for the same public services as any other adopted road already receive. This is not a situation BG should consider as the only people to benefit are the managing agents.
Besides BG houseowners bought their properties as freehold with roads to be adopted by the local authority. |
Edited by - BRAM on 15 Aug 2009 21:06:19 |
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 21:20:06
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Bram,
Thank you for the response.
As I thought, the private company would make a lot of money - even without a toll being charged.
Anyone want to come in as a partner!!!!! |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 20:02:31
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The draft APC minutes for last Monday have been published today. This was the meeting when residents of BG attacked the Council for their inaction on the road issues at BG and more specifically about the lorries coming to and fro from the school building site. In concluding the debate, the Chairman offered for the APC to liaise with residents to ascertain their needs and write to the parties concerned strongly representing the views of all Bramley Green residents.
What the published minutes actually reported was: quote:
The Chairman responded by drawing attention to West Sussex County Council’s statement. Further clarification would be sought and a meeting arranged if appropriate.
To me that looks like the APC taking a step back from what was promised, but perhaps it's just me being a bit cynical. |
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Mr Angry
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 20:59:59
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Just a bit of innocent editing?
"Further clarification would be sought" = "and write to the parties concerned strongly representing the views of all Bramley Green residents"
"and a meeting arranged if appropriate" = "the Chairman offered for the APC to liaise with residents to ascertain their needs"
Same horse, different jockey? Can't minute meetings verbatim?
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Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 21:46:01
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| Re the APC Minutes for 10 Aug, suggest we encourage all the 28 members of the public who attended to write or e-mail to the APC their comments on the Minutes as an inadequate represbntation of what was said; and post a copy here of comments sent so that everyone is kept in the picture. |
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Mr Angry
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 22:53:54
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Re any minutes of any meeting - seeing as they are never recorded verbatim - let's encourage any member of the public that has ever attended any meeting to do the same - eh?
How you gonna contact all 28 members of the public present at that meeting? Tell you what - next time, take a digital DVD recorder and slap the whole meeting on youtube, then go - "SEE - there you go - 28 mins and 32 seconds in - the chairman said 'blah blah blah' but in the posted minutes, they only printed 'blah'
Can't you get it in to your head that APC have no power and very little influence over your main gripes - your issues are with the developers and WSCC (highways) and ADC (planning) and APC are just a filter?
Sure, they've stuffed up over a few things, but if the powers above them had their hearts in the right place (they don't) - then they'd put them right - it wouldn't take all this; it SHOULDN'T take all this.
At least APC have local knowledge and interest - some councillors live on BG, and I'm sure that they are just as frustrated as you are - carry on going to meetings and work WITH them - rather than picking up on trivial technicalities and twisting the knife every chance you get - it's getting so boring. The dust will settle, Rome wasn't built in a day - and all that carp.
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Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis |
Edited by - Mr Angry on 17 Aug 2009 22:55:16 |
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apples
Junior Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2009 : 22:56:07
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forgive me for coming in on this, I do live on BG, but not on the route for the schoool build. I was also at the meeting on Monday and am becoming increasingly concerned with the differing opinions of what was/supposed/not said.
As I see the problem with the school build, if anyone should have noted this, it would have been the planning dept at PC. However, I checked the plans at Arun when I first heard of this, as I was due to be away when the consultaion at the school was advertised. The plans showed that the access was going though BG.
I see there were 7 letters of objection and 18 letters of Rep. so I am now wondering if any of those objections were actually from BG?
I believed at the time they all came from the Dell area.
So, if the residents of the Dell were able to interpret the plans, how comes no one on BG did?
This seems to me a case of No one on the BG estate recognising what was going to happen and are now blaming every one other than themselves.
I just find it quite shocking at the moment the way all the minutes are being scutinised and pulled to pieces, but no-one appeared to put the same verocity into checking the original plans.
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 07:30:25
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I assume, Mr A, that you were not at last Monday's meeting. If you had been, you would have detected that many things were not quite right with the minutes.
The 20+ residents of BG who attended the meeting, primarily over the road issues, were angry over the Council's responses. That was even after the Chairman's positive commitment that did not reach its way into the minutes. I can understand why there might be a reaction to what was finally documented. I do appreciate that everything cannot be included verbatim, but the statement that was finally included looked as if it had been written by a lawyer and could allow the PC to get away with doing nothing.
I went to ensure that Councillor Storer's resignation since the previous meeting got documented in the minutes. Despite raising the matter at Public Question Time, the matter failed to appear in the minutes.
Another member of the public raised the contentious issue of the £4500 - £5000 that it was going to cost to restore the ground where the GSH piping had been installed. None of that discussion was recorded in the minutes, merely a fact that we already knew, i.e. that "the site of the ground heating works would be levelled, treated and seeded within the next two months".
As the PC has told us on occasions, these are only draft minutes, and it is in the power of the Chairman to correct them or change them if he so wishes before they go before next month's meeting for approval. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 07:53:21
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......... and, oh yes, another discussion was not documented.
This was when Mr Jonathan Allcock, a prospective councillor for co-option, was asked whether he would like to come forward and state his reasons for wanting to join the Council - he was the only one of four names put forward who attended the meeting. After he had spoken, he was questioned by councillors, the whole process taking nearly 10 minutes, but this failed to have any mention in the minutes. Why? |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 08:20:45
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quote:
Originally posted by apples I checked the plans at Arun when I first heard of this, as I was due to be away when the consultaion at the school was advertised. The plans showed that the access was going though BG. I see there were 7 letters of objection and 18 letters of Rep. so I am now wondering if any of those objections were actually from BG? I believed at the time they all came from the Dell area.So, if the residents of the Dell were able to interpret the plans, how comes no one on BG did? This seems to me a case of No one on the BG estate recognising what was going to happen and are now blaming every one other than themselves.
Dear Apples
I too am a BG resident. Unlike you but along with a very large no. of other BG residents I have spoken with, we were not aware of the plans for the school building site or the proposed use of the BG roads for access until very recently. Had we been made aware back in Jan/Feb when the plans emerged we would certainly have raised objections.
I researched yesterday and found out there was a public exhibition relating to this planning application, held at Angmering School on 3 February 2009 - of which Bramley Green residents were not notified. I also examined yesterday the advertisements that were posted at the time in the West Sussex Gazette by WSCC, and the advert in the Angmering School's Weekly News on 19 Jan - both without exception make no reference at all to the proposed use of the Bramley Green roads by the constructors' 35 ton vehicles. Neither did our elected WSCC councillor for Angmering (Deborah Urquhart) apparently see fit to communicate this information at the time.
Without that specific piece of information in the public advertisements of the 3 Feb Public Exhibition, I doubt that many BG residents (unless perhaps they have children at the school) would have been interested enough to go along (assuming of course they actually saw the advertisements which were not broadcast locally). Even if a few did, there's little information in what was displayed at the Public Exhibition to trigger awareness of the proposed BG road use by 35 ton vehicles for 12 months as an issue to worry about.
The Chairman of APC also stated to the 28 Public attendees at the 10 August 2009 APC meeting that they did not become aware of the intended use of the Bramley Green roads by the constructors' vehicles until very recently, following residents' complaints after their receipt of the 28 July 2009 letter from W.Stirland the contractors.
In researching yesterday the lack of communication and consultation by WSCC with Bramley Green residents on this matter, I also reviewed WSCC's planning application A/11/09 for the new school building which, inter alia, states specifically :
a) the site was carefully chosen to reduce impact on the surrounding neighbouring properties
b) the siting of the new two storey block has been carefully positioned to reduce the impact on surrounding residential properties to the north and north east (i.e. Bramley Green)
c) the temporary (construction) roadway has been designed to connect to the existing access point on the roundabout in Bramley Green estate
d) detailed pre-construction planning will be undertaken .... to minimise disruption to .... local communities.
Nowehere does the above state that 35 ton vehicles will be using BG's narrow roads for access over a 12 month period - which is what is now happening to the severe detriment, health and safety of all in BG. Neither does the planning application or the information provided at the public exhibition say anything about why 3 obvious alternative less disruptive routes for access from the south, west, and east were discarded by WSCC.
Contrary to the APC Chairman's statement on 10 Aug, I also found out yesterday that Angmering Parish Council actually wrote to Mr M Vine at WSCC on 23 February 2009 stating explicitly that "Council has no objection to the proposal, subject to no contractor access for construction through Greenwoood Drive". The letter from APC was signed by Vivien Bristow, Assistant Clerk, on behalf of the Council, and can be seen on the WSCC website.
In view of the above statements, it is clear that both WSCC and APC owe the 2,000 residents of Bramley Green and their families an immediate explanation as to :
- why WSCC and APC did not ensure in February 2009 that the proposals were communicated to all residents in the immediately affected local community of Bramley Green and that appropriate consultation then took place ?
- why APC did not register any objection to WSCC in February 2009 to the use of Bramley Green's narrow and unsuitable roads for the construction traffic; and the consequent disruption, noise, nuisance, danger and other health & safety impacts on those residents ? An objection was only raised by APC in respect of Greenwood Drive.
- why APC did not raise in its response to WSCC the merits of considering alternative far less disruptive routes for the construction traffic, either from the A259, from Station Road, or from Mayflower Way ?
- why the Chairman of APC misled the public attendees at the APC meeting on 10 August 2009 by stating they had no prior knowledge of this issue, when it is clear from the above facts that they had that specific knowledge at least 6 months earlier ? |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 10:12:55
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Before all this gets too out of hand, it may be worth reminding readers that this subject is going along on two subjects, ie. "Bramley Green Road adoption" and "Private road."
It may be better if all postings are on one, for the sake of continuity.
Secondly, and more important, can I remind readers that this subject did come up earlier in the year (January / Feb) on page 2 of the General forum, under the heading of "Angmering School/Sixth Form Centre Plans."
It may well be worth readers going back over some of the comments at that time, on that subject.
Although reference to a Public Meeting is a little confusing, as it was an Open Public Meeting for the local MP for residents to discuss any matters, local or national, and certainly not a meeting about the school plans.
But the postings on that subject do indicate, that it was fairly apparent the HGV,s would have to access the site via BG, so BG readers of this forum were aware of it, and it is also very obvious that the PC knew full well what the planned route was, at that time, as they specifically required that traffic did not access via the Greenwood Drive site, as has since been stated by GrumpyGirl.
It is perfectly clear that APC asked for it, in there comments for the planning app. not to be accessed via the main school entrance, they were in effect pushing it into BG.
Personally, I think both access routes are a disgrace and far more thought should have been given to the possibility of using private land to access that side of the school, ( albeit I appreciate that may have been difficult, but worth persueing) if necessary off the A259, particularly along the argument that the school , access roads and parking, have totally outgrown the original facilities.
The previous postings will indicate to readers who said what and who knew.
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 20:49:10
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Following the coverage in last Thursday's Littlehampton Gazette of the blockade by Bramley Green residents of the 35 ton contractors' vehicles using Rowan Way, these vehicles have since been instructed by WSCC to use Bramley Way which is even less suitable for such traffic and is already causing great distress to residents there. Another blockade will therefore take place this Friday 21 August from 8am onwards. Please bring your deckchairs and come and support this peaceful protest on our private roads. Given their platitudes and excuses in response to numerous residents' direct complaints so far, persistent media attention seems to be the only way to shame WSCC into action to resolve this ongoing unacceptable treatment of our residents and their families. If you care about this community, please come and support. |
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dillydaisy
New Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 20:52:37
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How did the blockade go last week, did you actually manage to deter the trucks?
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2009 : 22:08:55
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quote:
Following the coverage in last Thursday's Littlehampton Gazette of the blockade by Bramley Green residents of the 35 ton contractors' vehicles using Rowan Way.......
What about the coverage on the News page of this website? The AVL News page has just as big a readership in Angmering as the LG! The photos are also much clearer! |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 06:40:22
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| Sorry Neil, of course your coverage was paramount to our success and very much appreciated and it was remiss of me not to applaud your efforts on our behalf. Please come too and help us!!! |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 06:52:53
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| Hi Dillydaisy, Our mini blockade last Tuesday was definitely a partial success. Unfortunately there were no lorries coming down BG that day as the site was being prepared for them and consequently they were not due to start trundling for a few days! The trundling has started in a big way now! In spite of the above, we got great coverage and pix from AVL (thank you Neil!) and an article in the Littlehampton Gazette. It certainly forced the builders and WSCC to rethink using the whole of BG so although those living on Nursery Road and Rowan Way will be happier, the result is that all the lorries are now coming down Bramley Way which is even less suitable for HGVs. I don't live on any of these roads so I could just say well I'm not affected but as I do live in BG and I do care about our community and am appalled at the way Angmering Parish Council and West Sussex County Council are able to ramrod their way through our lives without any discussion or consultation on matters that affect us greatly. The protest on Friday 8am will be much more effective as the lorries are already coming through on a very regular and disturbing basis. The protest will only work if we all fight and work together to put a stop to this bullying. Please join us. |
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 08:25:58
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Neil,
I am a resident of Angmering, living on the Bramley Green estate and fully understand the frustrations of those that are raising the issue of traffic accessing the site via the roads (unadopted) of the estate.
A number of views seem to indicate that there was no knowledge of the meetings/plans showing at the school back in Feb 2009.
I note that this site had a topic (Angmering School/Sixth Form Centre Plans) listed on 20 Jan 2009 and in the responses you indicated that there were posters situated around the village to advertise this.
I assume this site and the posters were sufficient for those interested to attend - so the argument that people were not made aware seems to be a non starter.
In all case were dispute takes place such as this, it is best to present your side (not personal - in this case) with all facts correct.
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 09:31:50
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Compost, my posting of yesterday, referring readers to that previous subject, made it perfectly clear that the meeting referred to and advertised around the village was, an Open Public Meeting for residents of Angmering, with our Member of Parliament.
It was not a meeting about the school and anticipated building. That subject merely came up during the meeting.
There was no mention of the school issues on the notice that advertised the meeting, circulated around the village. I thought that was perfectly clear, to understand.
I am sure Neil will give his opinion on that, and he may disagree, but I think you will find he made the very same point that it was not a meeting about the school, on those previous postings of Jan/ Feb..
I think it is your facts that are incorrect. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 09:36:09
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compost, I think you have mis-read my posting back in January.
What I saying was that there were posters around the village advertising our MP's (Nick Herbert) periodic surgery. I was just reporting that some people who attended raised the subject of the school's expansion, and I provided a few comments about the history of the land and it's possible future if another 500/1500 houses were built on the east side of Angmering.
I do not have "a side" on this issue as you put it. I made no comments to any council, neighbours, Forums. I did not even see the plans as I did not attend the school's exhibition of plans. In fact, I spent the whole of February on the other side of the world! |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:16:47
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quote:
Originally posted by compost
I am a resident of Angmering, living on the Bramley Green estate and fully understand the frustrations of those that are raising the issue of traffic accessing the site via the roads (unadopted) of the estate.
A number of views seem to indicate that there was no knowledge of the meetings/plans showing at the school back in Feb 2009.
I note that this site had a topic (Angmering School/Sixth Form Centre Plans) listed on 20 Jan 2009 and in the responses you indicated that there were posters situated around the village to advertise this.
I assume this site and the posters were sufficient for those interested to attend - so the argument that people were not made aware seems to be a non starter.
In all case were dispute takes place such as this, it is best to present your side (not personal - in this case) with all facts correct.
Compost - have you read my reply above to Apples, posted 18 Aug at 08:20:45 ? That gives the full and correct facts on this matter. It is clear that BG residents were not informed about the 35 ton vehicles using our private roads several times a day for 12 months, nor about the severe danger thus presented to their public saftey - as has already been evidenced this week - nor about the abusive and uncaring beahiour of the lorry drivers - as has also been directly observed both this week and last week. In addition, Angmering Parish Council - who were clearly aware of the plans (contrary to their recent public statment) - failed to raise any objection to the heavy lorries' use of Bramley Green roads, choosing only to object about the use of Greenwood Drive - I leave you to comment on why that may have been ? |
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:24:52
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Seems I may have mis-interpreted what was posted and for that I apologise.
Neil - I did not say you had a side, I put in brackets that it was not personal to you - i meant anyone when presenting a case - my wording may not have been the best.
Is that 2 votes I won't get when applying to join the PC. |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2009 : 10:49:49
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quote:
[i]
Compost - have you read my reply above to Apples, posted 18 Aug at 08:20:45 ? That gives the full and correct facts on this matter. It is clear that BG residents were not informed about the 35 ton vehicles using our private roads several times a day for 12 months, nor about the severe danger thus presented to their public saftey - as has already been evidenced this week - nor about the abusive and uncaring beahiour of the lorry drivers - as has also been directly observed both this week and last week. In addition, Angmering Parish Council - who were clearly aware of the plans (contrary to their recent public statment) - failed to raise any objection to the heavy lorries' use of Bramley Green roads, choosing only to object about the use of Greenwood Drive - I leave you to comment on why that may have been ?
Depends what is meant by 'informed'. It seems clear from even the clarifications above that plenty of people knew about the school expansion plans, at least in general terms even if not the detail. Common sense suggests that any major building work will involve lorries etc and that there are only a couple of access routes which could be used. So really what is being said by the protesters is that we didn't pay much attention to the process in good time, so didn't lobby the PC at an earlier stage. We'll now blame the PC for not reading our minds and undertake some last minute on the ground protest, interfere with lorry drivers just doing what they are told to do and be surprised when they swear at us (this is not an excuse for abusive or speeding lorry drivers, but most of us wouldn't take kindly to random members of the public stopping us doing our jobs). My prediction of what will happen next:
1. a few more protests
2. the police will get involved, threaten a few people with arrest for breaching the peace, blocking the highway etc
3. protesters will back down and start new threads on this site asking why the police don't arrest vandalising hoodies etc rather than picking on innocent householders
4. scared off by 'the law' the protest will vanish (but continue apace on this site!)
5. building work will continue as originally planned.
So adapting from an early part of Hitchhiker's Guide why not skip 1-4 and go straight to 5.? |
Commuter |
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