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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:13:21
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 11:10:52
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I am not defending the Banks, they should contribute their legal tax liability, the same as all individuals and corporates.
But, much of the recent media reporting has been biased against the Banks, many would may say, rightly so. But if a story is going to be told, the full facts have to be told, not just one side.
For example, the article in the Guardian gives quotes from Lord Myners, where he is critical of the Banks contribution.
It does not mention that the very same Lord Myners, was City and Business Minister of the last Labour Government, before, during and after the financial crisis of 2008.
The Banks paid under the same Corporation tax system then as now, for which he was responsible. It was ok then, but not now! Hypocrisy in the extreme.
The media fails to mention two very important points. The figures are for 2009. This is the year immediatly following the financial crash, when their profits dropped like a stone. Corporation Tax is paid on profits. If the profits are well down, so will the Corporation tax liability. It is a % of the profits.
Barclays Bank, although basically a British Bank, trades world wide.
The profits are from the total business across the planet. They do not have to pay all the tax on all their profits across the globe, in the UK. They only have to pay tax in the UK, on profits generated in the UK.
Profits from business in all other countries across the globe, of which there are very many, have to be paid to those respective countries.
Also remember, the Guardian has a specific political agenda. They will tell you what they want you to know. They will not mention what they do not want you to know.
As stated at the outset, I also agree that the Financial Sector should pay their full tax liability. But lets not confuse tax evasion with tax avoidance and lets hear both sides.
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 16:01:37
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Sorry i must have read it wrong i thought they said "Bank has been forced to admit it paid just £113m in UK corporation tax in 2009 – a year when it rang up a record £11.6bn of profits."
And as far as the banks being fair i'm sure they are as many people will have noticed their charges and interest rates have risen dramatically over the last couple of years (credit card rates and loan rates)
These B******ds have caused the financial crisis by there incompetence and greed and now we are all paying for it.... And who is going to suffer the most the poor the unemployed the Disabled the Sick...
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 16:43:04
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Angmeringite, What point are you trying to make, by putting up articles from the papers?
Clearly you are trying to be political. The Banks paid the appropriate amount of Corporation Tax for that financial year, under the tax rules set up for that period, by the then Labour Government.
The majority of their profits came from outside the UK. They are not expected to pay tax in the UK from profits made outside the UK. They paid tax in all the other countries on profits made in each.
If you didn't earn much money this year, you wouldn't pay much tax.
Barclays, under the rules, didn't make much profit in 2009, in the UK, and can claim back for losses and written off debts from the previous year which included the financial crisis.
Governments make the tax rules. These were the rules the then Labour Government made, and Barclays have complied with them.
So far as the other point you make. The fact that the then Government had huge debts, not associated with the Banking crisis, (we will get most of that back) and then still borrowed far more than they could afford, creating a huge structural deficit, for which we are all paying back with huge interest, has according to your post, nothing to do with the problems of the current changes??
Getting back to the Banks. As I stated, I think the investment arms of the big banks acted in the most disgraceful manner in the run up to 2008, but they are not going to contribute any more tax that the rules require, any more than you or I want do.
We're all annoyed and upset about it, but I also get annoyed when newspapers only provide half the story.
The amount of tax overall, from the financial sector, to the Treasury every year in the UK is huge.
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 20:30:29
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| And who is the Government borrowing money from could it be the very banks and financial institutions that we have all bailed out and now have to repay with interest.... |
Edited by - Angmeringite on 19 Feb 2011 20:34:02 |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 20:43:14
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Who else does the Government borrow from?
I expect foreign countries and foreign institutions have also bought Government bonds. China has bought up much of America's debt.
That is the legacy left by the last Labour Government.
What point is it exactly, that you are trying to make? |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 20:51:30
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So we bail out the banks with our tax money and then borrow money back from them and pay them interest?
Government bonds com from the bank of england which is mainly privately owned..
Why do you keep blaming Labour for the financial crisis and then say i'm trying to be political?
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 21:07:52
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The clear implication in your initial postings (two of the three newspapers are very left wing) and comments, which you started, were political.
The subject of the Banks and the financial crisis, which you started, which occured in 2008-9, cannot possibly be discussed or answered without mentioning that we had a Labour Government at the time.
I still don't know what point exactly, it is you're trying to make.
I am sure we are all very upset and annoyed at:-
1. The financial crisis of 2008-9.
2. The global recession,
3. The excessive debt and borrowing of the last Government.
4. The consequences of these three major issues.
Are we in agreement with that? |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 21:23:09
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Absolutely. My post was actually about Barclays bank and the amount of tax they seem to have payed.
"and comments, which you started,were political."
I think that i only mentioned the banks and it was you who mentioned the political parties first.
As you seem to assume i am political i can tell you i think they all are complete Idiots and only interested in politics for self gain Labour,Liberal and The Conservatives as they all showed us during the expenses scandal.
My point is why are we allowing the banks to get away almost scott free while the vast majority of us are having to suffer for their incompetence.... |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 21:48:45
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I'm pleased we can find some agreement.
I posted my initial response, because the Guardian, which you initially highlighted, and most other papers made the headline that Barclays had made great profits in 2009.
But the figure they have all given was their global profit across the planet, most of which was not in the UK and therefore not subject of UK tax, which was very misleading.
But the tax they then went on to talk about was the tax liability in the UK only.
They should not use a worldwide profit figure and then give the distinct impression that all of that, is subject of UK tax. Because it is not.
But that is the clear impression they gave and it is wrong.
However, ....... time for Horlicks. |
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Angmeringite
Senior Member
152 Posts |
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