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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 12:29:58
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| Does anybody know if the roads in Bramley Green are ever going to be adopted? The development has been finished now for nearly 5 years and still no sign of anything happening. How long before a serious and completely avoidable accident happens because residents park on the pavement, in front of give-way signs and basically cannot be bothered to park in the allotted parking spaces by their garages? WE have had several near misses lately with cars speeding down Bramley Way and nearly colliding with on-coming vehicles. If anybody has info on this, some news would be much appreciated. |
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NickR60
Average Member
46 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 14:12:28
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| I agree 100%. I am sick and tired of people leaving their vehicles outside on the road - It is down to being pure lazy. There will be an accident soon for sure. The road sides are also looking very tatty. Weeds growing everywhere by the curbside, it really could do with some weed killer sprayed down. |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 09:54:24
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This is the response I have received from Angmering Parish Council:
The roads within the Bramley Green development have not been adopted by West Sussex County Council and at the present time remain the responsibility of the Development Consortium.
The adoption process has been brought to a halt because after a monitoring period it has been established vehicle speeds through the development are too high to comply with the 20 mph zone criteria. The Consortium have therefore been asked to find a way of slowing down traffic speed to meet the requisite criteria, enabling the adoption process to move forward. The County Council are awaiting a solution to be found in this respect by the Consortium.
So,from the above it would appear the roads will never be adopted as most of the developers have gone or will go bust and APC obviously don't want to know.
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if only
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
760 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 10:15:27
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Your comment is unfair I believe Grumpy girl
if you check the agenda for the next highways meeting of APC, you will see that they are already have this matter to discuss:
f) Bramley Green Roads
To discuss the email from Mr Harvey Rogers dated 2nd June 2009
regarding the adoption of the Bramley Green roads. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 11:29:55
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GrumpyGirl
I received the same response from WSCC on 20/3/09 although one year earlier,on 27/2/08, the reason given by WSCC was:
"The developers for your street have an agreement, however the main distributor road has not yet got one. This is being progressed, we can not adopt any road until it is linked to public highway. When the distributor road agreement is in place all the other roads can be adopted. Hope this clears things up, if you have any further queries do not hesitate to contact me."
It seems that they are just making excuses to avoid adopting the roads thereby avoiding responsibility for repair or maintenance.
The latest excuse about vehicle speed seems nonsensical since, as I understand it,traffic regulations can only be enforceed on public highways i.e. publically adopted roads.
Comments have been made elsewhere as to the disinterest of the BG Consortium in various issues which have arisen over recent years & I think it unlikely that they will spend time or money addressing this one. Nor does it seem likeley that WSCC,APC or any other public body will pursue them. Profits have been taken by the original interested parties (including the Councils)& any problems now fall on the current homeowners which seems to be the trend with many newbuild estates these days & will inevitably recur if/when the proposed housebuilding plan within Arun takes off. Perhaps the official authorities responsible for planning approval,inspection & adoption should ensure that all matters are completed before finally signing off the projects.
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 12:32:53
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quote:
Originally posted by if only
Your comment is unfair I believe Grumpy girl
if you check the agenda for the next highways meeting of APC, you will see that they are already have this matter to discuss:
f) Bramley Green Roads
To discuss the email from Mr Harvey Rogers dated 2nd June 2009
regarding the adoption of the Bramley Green roads.
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2009 : 12:35:40
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BRAM,
I am happy to stand corrected and will be delighted if something actually happens. Thanks for your update. Much appreciated. Am new to the forums so not in touch with all that has gone on before. Haven't had time to read all topics and replies. Thanks and will await developments if any, ever! |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 19:41:01
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| Just driven through BG and realised just how much of the road network is (expensively?) block paved. Sorry, but as a non-BG resident I don't want to be stung for extra council tax to maintain this attractive (no doubt it helped, along with nicely presented show homes, to flog the properties at a premium when new) but unnecessary frill. |
Commuter |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 13:18:00
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Commuter
A lot of the block paving is in fact the forecourts of garages & car parking spaces which fall within householders boundaries & as such is their responsibility not the local authority. There are some block paved areas on the road but the majority of the surface is tarmac.Anybody regularly travelling the roads in Sussex will have seen how poorly maintained surfaces are particularly where local authority/utility companies/developers etc. have dug up the roads & footpaths only to resurface superficially with shoddy material & work. The likelihood of any disturbance of block paving within BG is almost certain to result in similar shoddy resurfacing with no attempt to return to original. The cost of similar repairs would therefore be no more to taxpayers than a hole repaired in any other part of Angmering.
It should also be borne in mind that BG properties are rated at the higher council tax bands & whilst nobody wants to pay more than they have to it could be argued that if BG residents are not going to be treated in the same way as other areas of Angmering why should we pay to maintain areas in other parts of the village if the only benefit a lot of BG residents obtain from the council tax is refuse collection. The issue of adoption of roads & utilities is one of fairness & if new estates are to be assimilated into communities then all taxpayers mustbe treated equally. If the drains or roads outside your house were to collapse then I would not expect the local authority to avoid the responsibilty of repairing them & by that same token I would expect mine to be.
I wait with interest the position once the proposed expansion of housing within Angmering happens.
On a related matter connected to roads,traffic & parking the point of vehicle congestion within BG was illustrated quite well on Sunday when the narrow BG roads were cluttered with parked vehicles(on roads & pavements)attending the "Race for Life" starting from Roundstone Lane Rugby Club despite the adequate parking provided within the Rugby Club grounds.Whilst the event was to be applauded the inconsideration by so many motorists was an indicator that the problem is unlikely to be solved without parking penalties. |
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 13:39:02
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| After over 30 years since the start of building of The Dell, the drainage system on that development has still not been adopted by Southern Water and it is unlikely that it ever will be. |
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compost
Advanced Member
265 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 19:39:05
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commuter,
Totally agree about the block paving, however I am in social housing and we have it from the junction of private housing. It does look good, the question will be on the savings of maintenance, is the initial outlay off set against upkeep. Do not know the answer myself, but does seem a bit of a waste of money.
As an Angmering Resident (living on BG) I dont want extra Council Tax either. |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 20:21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by compost
commuter,
Totally agree about the block paving, however I am in social housing and we have it from the junction of private housing. It does look good, the question will be on the savings of maintenance, is the initial outlay off set against upkeep. Do not know the answer myself, but does seem a bit of a waste of money.
As an Angmering Resident (living on BG) I dont want extra Council Tax either.
If you're ever in Burgess Hill have a look at the new(ish) housing estate near to Tesco. This estate was built a few years earlier than BG with similar block paved traffic calming and by now is showing its age - blocks missing, not repaired etc. Unless this road surface was required as part of the planning, I can only assume that it is a cynical ploy by developers to give that extra wow factor to a new estate to help them sell at an extra premium. This seems to have worked as properties currently selling on BG seem to be going for hardly any mark up over their original prices about 6 years ago. With parking problems now showing and the roads becoming increasinly tatty, this can only get worse. Definitely a place to rent rather than buy! |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 07:19:21
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quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
Commuter
A lot of the block paving is in fact the forecourts of garages & car parking spaces which fall within householders boundaries & as such is their responsibility not the local authority. There are some block paved areas on the road but the majority of the surface is tarmac.Anybody regularly travelling the roads in Sussex will have seen how poorly maintained surfaces are particularly where local authority/utility companies/developers etc. have dug up the roads & footpaths only to resurface superficially with shoddy material & work. The likelihood of any disturbance of block paving within BG is almost certain to result in similar shoddy resurfacing with no attempt to return to original. The cost of similar repairs would therefore be no more to taxpayers than a hole repaired in any other part of Angmering.
It should also be borne in mind that BG properties are rated at the higher council tax bands & whilst nobody wants to pay more than they have to it could be argued that if BG residents are not going to be treated in the same way as other areas of Angmering why should we pay to maintain areas in other parts of the village if the only benefit a lot of BG residents obtain from the council tax is refuse collection. The issue of adoption of roads & utilities is one of fairness & if new estates are to be assimilated into communities then all taxpayers mustbe treated equally. If the drains or roads outside your house were to collapse then I would not expect the local authority to avoid the responsibilty of repairing them & by that same token I would expect mine to be.
I wait with interest the position once the proposed expansion of housing within Angmering happens.
On a related matter connected to roads,traffic & parking the point of vehicle congestion within BG was illustrated quite well on Sunday when the narrow BG roads were cluttered with parked vehicles(on roads & pavements)attending the "Race for Life" starting from Roundstone Lane Rugby Club despite the adequate parking provided within the Rugby Club grounds.Whilst the event was to be applauded the inconsideration by so many motorists was an indicator that the problem is unlikely to be solved without parking penalties.
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 07:29:55
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| I can only agree in its entirety with BRAM. When we bought our house on BG 5 years ago we were assured by the authorities that the roads would be adopted by the Council. WE pay our taxes like everybody else except of course the Travellers who have just been evicted! When the Rugby Club hosts large functions it can be a nightmare just to get into the development never mind get close to your residence. All we ask for is the same rules as everybody else in the village. Maybe we should withhold a portion of our council tax if there is a pothole somewhere in the locality that we don't drive near. That would be good, wouldn't it? Commuter's comment about house price rises or not in BG would indicate the current economic downturn rather than tatty roads, I would suggest. |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 09:20:07
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quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyGirl
Commuter's comment about house price rises or not in BG would indicate the current economic downturn rather than tatty roads, I would suggest.
Actually, my impression is that BG has been hit harder. I draw this conclusion from the fact that in the early stages of the building of BG I had my property valued with an eye to moving there, but in the end didn't. Based upon current asking prices my property is still 'worth' about 35% more than it was then. Identical designed properties to the one I was interested in on BG have recently been on the market for only 10-15% more. So a 20-25% extra 'fall' ie a loss entirely due to the fading of the wow factor, showhome sales tricks etc having gone. On the road adoption, seems entirely fair that the roads should be adopted if that was what was promised, but this should cost no more than for other areas. ie the block paving will have to be tarmaced over, if that is cheaper, when it needs to be repaired. After all, if that is all the private residents of the Willowhayne or the Thatchway (surely the poshest estates in the area?) are willing to pay for, the Council Tax payers shouldn't be forking out more for BG. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2009 : 13:17:12
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Whilst walking along Rowan Way,BG this morning I saw a man in a high vis yellow jacket busily photographing the roads & kerbs. Intrigued by this I questioned him & discovered that he was a WSCC Highways employee tasked with the job of examining roads & kerbs prior to the start of work on the Angmering School 6th form building as construction traffic will travel from Roundstone Lane through Nursery Road & Rown Way. This he explained was to ensure that any damage caused by the heavy vehicles accessing the building site is made good after the buildings completion which he said would probably last until April 2010.At the very moment he spoke a heavy vehicle thundered past from the CC site demonstrating his point effectively because while there is a weight restriction through the village & a "No construction traffic" sign was erected on Weavers Hill during the BG build, no such precautions exist through BG. I do not recall any mention of APC carrying out similar preparatory work before the CC building began to ensure that the contractors make good any damage.
I suspect that both building sites will be responsible for adverse effects on roads,foundations & drains by the time that work concludes & I find it unacceptable that WSCC Highways are resisting the adoption of BG roads & lumbering residents with costs of repairs necessary as a result of their contractors or is that perhaps why they are dragging their feet?
Since BG roads are unadopted & effectively "private" perhaps BG residents should blockade the access points to prevent this further vandalism. |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 08:18:37
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BRAM, in response to your "sighting" yesterday morning of the man in the high visibility jacket, we have sent an email to the APC, WSCC as under:
Further to our recent complaint about the dangers caused by the parking problems in Bramley Green due to the lack of adoption of the roads by WSCC, another related problem has emerged that gives us cause for complaint.
A fellow resident of Bramley Green today saw a man in a high visibility yellow jacket photographing the roads & kerbs around the junction between Bramley Way and Rowan Way. Upon enquiry he ascertained that the photographer was a WSCC Highways employee tasked with the job of examining the roads & kerbs prior to the start of work on the Angmering School 6th form building. The Highways employee advised that the heavy vehicle construction traffic for the new school facility will travel from Roundstone Lane through Nursery Road, Rowan Way & Bramley Way in Bramley Green to the building site. He also advised that the building work would probably take until April 2010 to complete.
Since the roads in Bramley Way have not been adopted by WSCC and therefore remain in private ownership, we would like to know who has given permission for the heavy vehicle construction traffic for the publicly owned school building site to use these private roads, and under what authority has that permission has been granted ? It is certainly not the case that the residents of Bramley Green have given their permission. Why is the construction traffic for the school building site not using adopted roads for access from the other side of the school, given that the school is a public facility ?
As residents we are very concerned at the likely damage that will be caused by the heavy construction vehicles over several months to the roads, kerbs, pavements, foundations and underground sewerage/drainage facilities within Bramley Green. This construction traffic will also add considerably to the traffic congestion already suffered by residents within the narrow roads of Bramley Green. Since WSCC has not adopted these roads (and Southern Water has also not adopted the underground waste water/sewerage pipes & drains within Bramley Green) we presume that any repair costs, which are very likely to be substantial, will fall to the residents. That is completely unacceptable.
If WSCC wishes to use the roads within Bramley Green for access by the school construction traffic then it should adopt these roads forthwith and confirm that it will meet the cost of any repairs that consequentially become necessary.
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neil
Forum Owner / Moderator
United Kingdom
2623 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 09:29:47
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I like it  . WSCC cannot have it both way although they probably will knowing them!!! It will be very interesting to see their response. |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 10:13:49
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Interesting discussion along similar lines:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=3673214
Problem might be that if the residents of BG claim ownership of the roads then they also accept potential liability for any harm which occurs on them. Other internet info on this subject suggests that unless the Land Registry have a clear record of ownership, the issue tends to fall into a bit of a confused, limbo situation. |
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Bert
Advanced Member
484 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 10:35:34
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I have thought for some considerable time, that BG urgently needs a Residents Association. With all the issues re. the CC, roads, parking, construction traffic, water, skatepark, litter etc.
Individuals can make a difference and get things done, but an organised group of like minded people with authority, can achieve much more.
They will also be in a better position to challenge Local Authorities, including the Parish Council when appropriate. |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 14:17:46
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| Yep, think we definately need Residents Association. We will need to think about this. Happy to host an initial meeting with interested parties! |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 14:19:45
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| I did my usual litter clear-up this morning and encountered kids playing at the skateboard park. I dumped all the litter I had collected in the bin and told them that unless they started clearing up their rubbish and placing same in the bins, the skateboard park was going to be closed. That shook them!!! |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 16:01:56
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WSCC has sent letters to residents in Rowan Way informing them of the access by construction vehicles to the Angmering School 6th Form site, presumably because of the complaints by affected BG Residents yesterday.
If there had been no reaction by BG residents I wonder whether WSCC would have even bothered & judging by APCs pathetic input at the planing application stage they too seem disinterested as to the issues of traffic hazards;pollution;noise & damage to unadopted roads by contractors vehicles over the next 6 months which will impact on BG residents.
I now call upon APC to get off their backsides & involve themselves in dealing with these issues on behalf of the council taxpayers in BG before the residents start taking action themselves.
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 16:27:53
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| BRAM, thanks for info. What about the residents on Bramley Way or Nursery Road? how are these construction lorries going to get to the site without going past either of these roads? Still doesn't permit them to use our unadopted roads without resident permission. We are still waiting to hear from anybody in any authority whatsoever who gave permission and how dare they if the roads are private!!!! Unfortunately I wonder if the affected residents are also apathetic and whether they will remain so if they are landed with a huge road maintenance bill because of this?!!![(#)] |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 17:09:14
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GrumpyGirl
I only know a few people on Rowan Way so perhaps Nursery Road & other roads that traffic will travel through may also have received letters.Can anybody confirm?
I have also emailed my objection to WSCC & suggest that as many people on BG do likewise. |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 18:02:45
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In response to our earlier complaints to WSCC about the non-adoption of the BG roads, prior to learning about the construction vehicles re the schiool building, we have just received the following from Harvey Rogers at WSCC :
"A though assessment of the traffic speed within Bramley Green was undertaken by a Consultant using automated speed measurement apparatus in 2007 and the results of the survey show the 20 mph speed limit is not being observed. The main difference between the roads within this development and other recently adopted residential roads is that the proposed speed limit is 20 mph, instead of the more usual 30mph. The lower speed limit was chosen in this case to provide the safest possible environment for the residents within the development. The roads cannot be adopted without the traffic speeds being reduced because the legislation behind 20 mph zones requires the speed limit to be self enforcing through physical means such as traffic calming and other measures, rather than reliance being placed on the Police having sufficient resources to enforce any breeches of the speed limit. The County Council is therefore not allowed to adopt the roads within Bramley Green until this matter is resolved. If a solution is not found to this problem the alternative would be for the 20 mph zone to be withdrawn - this would result in the speed limit having to be increased to 30 mph by default, which I am sure you would agree is not in anyone's interest, most importantly of all the residents living within Bramley Green. I therefore intend to pursue matters as indicated previously and I will use my best endeavours to resolve the situation in the shortest possible timeframe. An up date will follow once I have information to report."
Needless to say, we do not agree with Harvey Rogers' statements and have just e-mailed back to him the following :
"As we suspected, you have confirmed that the traffic speed survey in Bramley Green was conducted 2 years ago, probably before the Developers completed installation of the traffic calming measures that now exist. It is very disappointing that the survey has not been updated more recently, and that the 2-year out of date survey is being used unreasonably to justify continuing prevarication on the part of WSCC in adopting the roads in Bramley Green and ceasing its discriminatory treatment of council tax payers in this development. As residents of over 5 years here, we remain firmly of the view that traffic speeds within Bramley Green are not a material concern and are certainly not the major concern. We therefore disagree with the application of a 20mph zone and are of the view that the great majority of residents in this development would much prefer the limit to be raised to 30mph in common with other residential developments so that WSCC would then be able to meet its long-outstanding and overdue obligation to adopt the roads. We would strongly suggest that you and/or Angmering Parish Council undertake forthwith a survey of the Bramley Green residents to confirm the preferences of the majority on this. Again we wish to make it clear that, after more than 5 years of waiting, more letter-writing does not offer an acceptable solution. It merely serves to prolong WSCC's prevarification on this matter."
We had previously sent the following complaint to WSCC and APC :
"In our opinion driver behaviour within Bramley Green is not materially different to that in numerous other residential roads within West Sussex that have been adopted by WSCC long ago. Until the roads in Bramley Green are adopted by WSCC it is also a fact that no speed limits or other traffic restrictions can be legally enforced because, as you note, the roads are currently private not public property. The problem therefore would seem to rest with WSCC's inaction in not adopting the roads and not with a lack of action by the Development Consortium who have long ago put in place several traffic calming semi-islands within the 3 main roads of Bramley Green (2 in Bramley Way, 3 in Rowan Way and 2 in Nursery Road). We do not see therefore that writing again to the Development Consortium as you propose will move forward resolution of the claimed speed problem, or more importantly the dangers caused by the more prevalent parking problems raised in our e-mail of 15th July 2009. We and all the other residents of Bramley Green are council tax payers, and we note that a substantial portion of the tax we pay goes to WSCC and that a significant portion of that in turn is used to meet its Highways responsibilities. At present (and for over 5 years now) we are being discriminated against compared with the great majority of council tax payers within West Sussex who are subject to the same council tax rate bands but whose roads have long been adopted. With respect, action is now needed on the part of WSCC to resolve this by adoption of the roads within Bramley Green so that appropriately specific parking restrictions and speed limits can be implemented and enforced."
Agree with BRAM that as many as possible BG residents who feel the same should comment to WSCC and APC individually. Perhaps if we do so in sufficient numbers someone in "authority" and/or "elected to represent us" will actually listen and take action accordingly??? |
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Guiseppe
Average Member
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 18:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
GrumpyGirl
I only know a few people on Rowan Way so perhaps Nursery Road & other roads that traffic will travel through may also have received letters.Can anybody confirm?
I have also emailed my objection to WSCC & suggest that as many people on BG do likewise.
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Guiseppe
Average Member
United Kingdom
47 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:24:56
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My Daughter/Son-In-Law who live on Nursery Road received a letter today from W Stirland, Builders , Chichester informing them that effective from 17th August their lorries and skips will be moving bulk materials through Nursery Road and Rowan Way to the construction works at Angmering School for a period of just over a year . As a family with two young children they are very concerned at this decision to send dangerous and destructive traffic down residential roads mainly inhabited by young parent families.
They will be voicing their strong objections to both WSCC and APC on this matter particularly in the light of these roads not yet being adopted by WSCC. I live elswhere on BG and will also be taking this matter up with the relevant bodies as a matter of urgency . I hope a significant number of BG residents who feel similarly on this matter will do the same. quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
GrumpyGirl
I only know a few people on Rowan Way so perhaps Nursery Road & other roads that traffic will travel through may also have received letters.Can anybody confirm?
I have also emailed my objection to WSCC & suggest that as many people on BG do likewise.
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anthony
Average Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 20:51:08
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Grumpy Girl, I for one (and I would like to think that others might agree) would like to see sufficent traffic calming measures so that Bramley Green is a 20mph zone . At the moment there are far too many muppets who think nothing of driving at over 30 (one culprit being a neighbour) and its entirely unsuitable for this estate. Where exactly did you conduct your survey that led you to conclude that "the great majority of residents in this development would much prefer the limit to be raised to 30mph in common with other residential developments"? You certainly didn't ask me.
Perhaps we should have a poll a) 20mph b)30mph c) dont care, I dont live on Bramley Green and I wish it had never been built. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 22:21:55
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GrumpyGirl
Well done. You are putting APC to shame by doing what they should be.
Anthony
If the current pinchpoints do not make your neighbour/any idiot motorists slow down I doubt whether anything will & this also applies to the speed limit within the village or any other area but the point by GrumpyGirl is valid in that other estates which have been adopted are no worse in this respect.Bad drivers will break any speed limit whether 20mph or 70mph & are found in older estates as well as new ones.
The main issue here is that BG roads & infrastructure should be adopted without further delay as is the case in the older parts of the village.
Whilst some people may not have wanted BG built it is nevertheless here & has contributed substantially to Angmering revenue & village life as seen in the Skatepark & Community Centre which benefits people beyond BG.Whilst many BG residents objected to thes projects the village majority prevailed & like it or not that is what passes as democracy.I am sure that the same NIMBYism will rear its ugly head once the thousand or so new houses are built in the area but there is little likelihood that local people will be able to stop it happening. The best that can be achieved is at least to mitigate the effect by ensuring that roads etc. are maintained as well as possible & that requires adoption by local authorities because residents on unadopted roads are unlikely to be able to afford expensive repairs. This will mean more potholes; rough surfaces; water/sewage leaks & associated delays in carrying out work until agreement by the bill payers is reached.
The danger of divisive polls such as that suggested is that Angmering will become split into enclaves which are only concerned with their own narrow interests & the village will cease to exist. |
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rhubarb
Junior Member
11 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 23:03:08
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I am pretty certain that if the speed limits and speeding motorists were not an issue, there would be plenty of other things that WSCC would flag up as reasons not to adopt the road.
We moved here from another modern development nearby which is a few years older than Bramley Green, and those roads are still not adopted to date, due to a collection of very minor things like curbs not right, signs in wrong places, and various other seemingly petty sticking points.
I does seem as if the both west sussex council and devlopers have little or no interest in sorting these things out wherever you go, not just here.
There are however some measures which do seem to be effective on the development, one that comes to mind is in William Olders Road, where the block paved raised area works well at slowing traffic, I have to drive carefully across it whereas I could (but don't) zoom through the totally straight Bramley Way and play dodge the bumps in Rounstone Lane no problem, perhaps something similar on the rest of the roads would be the way to go, but then this would of course cost money, and I very much doubt the developers consortium have any intention of contributing.
I agree a Residents Association would be a good idea. I do believe there is a sizeable group of people out there who care about Bramley Green. |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 07:58:27
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quote:
[i]
If the current pinchpoints do not make your neighbour/any idiot motorists slow down I doubt whether anything will
Driving around BG whilst it was being built and seeing the number of flash BMWs and mercedes on the drives I had assumed that they were being given away with the houses. Since then I have concluded that it was a nice little treat - just stick the new car (and all new furniture, of course) on the mortgage. My more serious point is that anyone who is stupid enough to buy a flash car on a 25 year mortgage (and so still be paying for it for at least 15 years after it has been traded in) is unlikely to have the intelligence and foresight to slow down on an estate where their own and their friends' children live and play. |
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BRAM
Advanced Member
373 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 11:42:30
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Commuter
I do not see the numerous luxury cars you refer to around BG. Perhaps they belong to visiting estate agents, valuers,VIPs or councillors even.Nor do I own one I hasten to say
Like most luxury items these days if people have worked hard, paid taxes, mortgages, etc. & feel that they have earned the right to buy (albeit on credit) a decent house/car/holiday, whatever & are not asking taxpayers to subsidise it then whether others may deem that irresponsible is irrelevant.Apart from a small number of properties BG is not subsidised Social Housing although some "buy to let" properties may house people who would otherwise be on Council/Housing Association waiting lists.
To thrash an expensive vehicle or risk crashing it or losing a driving licence by driving recklessly around narrow streets like BG raises the question of their sanity & fitness to drive in the first place.
What bothers me more are the numbers of old,unroadworthy vehicles (usually untaxed,uninsured & poorly serviced)driven or parked by people who don't give a toss about other road users or pedestrians. Particularly annoying is the mini motor bike which seems to have reappeared, no doubt because our PCSO has now departed.
Apart from the occasional speed check within the village neither the Police or Local Authorities are interested enough to check speeds anywhere else, let alone BG & so the argument about 20/30mph is a red herring.
I repeat my earlier contention all BG residents want is parity of treatment with other areas of Angmering & failing that independence for Bramley Green!!!!! |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 19:19:36
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quote:
Originally posted by BRAM
Commuter
I do not see the numerous luxury cars you refer to around BG. Perhaps they belong to visiting estate agents, valuers,VIPs or councillors even.Nor do I own one I hasten to say
Like most luxury items these days if people have worked hard, paid taxes, mortgages, etc. & feel that they have earned the right to buy (albeit on credit) a decent house/car/holiday, whatever & are not asking taxpayers to subsidise it then whether others may deem that irresponsible is irrelevant.
You are absolutely right about individuals' right to spend the money they get hold of how they like. My (tongue in cheek) comment was simply to emphasise that past generations would have considered it absolute madness to put transient items (cars, holidays etc) on their mortgage. Not only are ridiculous amounts of interest paid (eg a 30k car could easily cost 80k+ over the lifetime of the mortgage, much of this still being paid after the car is long gone) but who in their right mind risks being made homeless, if their economic fortunes turn bad, or (more likely?) interest rates rocket as a result of current government policies to print money and cause inflation? This latter point is actually my business, as a taxpayer I end up paying part of the tab for families with children who a repossessed and made homeless - even if this is only for some dingy room in an overpriced down market B&B. Back to the actual point of this thread, the main part of my comment was in response to earlier posts about speeding on BG. In my experience, those who seem to feel most need to speed through a congested village are those with clapped out cars and who just don't care or those with shiny new toys who can't resist showing off. |
Commuter |
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anthony
Average Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2009 : 20:44:40
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Commuter, where is your evidence of people on Bramley Green putting new cars (and furniture) on their mortgage?! Or is it merely an assumption? My mortgage when taken out was 60% of the value of the house. Could it not be that the people who have bought houses on Bramley Green and also have reasonably nice cars can (shock horror) afford them?
Some of your comments recently regarding Bramley Green verge on sounding bitter which I would hope isn't your intention; you want block paving tarmaced over (incidentally this wouldnt work, the block paving would have to be removed first then the sand screed and then base tarmac and wearing course placed, and altogether more costly exercise than replacing damaged block paviours). You also seem to be taking glee in informing us all of how you think Bramley Green property prices have been hit harder (not bothered, my house is my home, not merely an asset which, I am happy living in). And rather than suggesting that people fell for show home tricks is it not possible that they were(and are still) pleased with the size and layout of the houses and that they look reasonably attractive?
You claim your comments are tongue in cheek but I fail to grasp where exactly the humour in informing us that Bramley Green house prices are in freefall actually lies? Perhaps you could enlighten me...
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Edited by - anthony on 30 Jul 2009 20:50:21 |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 11:44:24
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| Anthony, I agree completely with your posting to Commuter |
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anthony
Average Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 20:47:07
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Guiseppe, I have emailed WSCC voicing my opposition to the route intended for construction traffic as I agree it is completely unacceptable. Clearly there has been no thought involved with regard to the impact on residents or the potential safety issues.
By the way, I think I may know you... did I once eat in your pizzeria in Rome? |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2009 : 10:35:05
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony
Commuter, where is your evidence of people on Bramley Green putting new cars (and furniture) on their mortgage?! Or is it merely an assumption? My mortgage when taken out was 60% of the value of the house. Could it not be that the people who have bought houses on Bramley Green and also have reasonably nice cars can (shock horror) afford them?
Some of your comments recently regarding Bramley Green verge on sounding bitter which I would hope isn't your intention; you want block paving tarmaced over (incidentally this wouldnt work, the block paving would have to be removed first then the sand screed and then base tarmac and wearing course placed, and altogether more costly exercise than replacing damaged block paviours). You also seem to be taking glee in informing us all of how you think Bramley Green property prices have been hit harder (not bothered, my house is my home, not merely an asset which, I am happy living in). And rather than suggesting that people fell for show home tricks is it not possible that they were(and are still) pleased with the size and layout of the houses and that they look reasonably attractive?
You claim your comments are tongue in cheek but I fail to grasp where exactly the humour in informing us that Bramley Green house prices are in freefall actually lies? Perhaps you could enlighten me...
It was not my intention to imply that BG houses were in freefall (at least not to any greater extent than elsewhere) just that on the evidence I have the 'new' premium which has now been lost was worth around 15-25%. This new premium (almost by definition) comes from clever marketing by developers, including aspects such as attractive road surfaces which are likely in the long term to have higher maintenance costs. I don't retract statements I have made to the effect that I would be unhappy paying council tax to maintain block paving on BG when the adopted road outside of my property is ordinary tarmac. Hopefully, as a non-BG resident I get some credit for supporting road adoption, if that was originally promised. I'm 100% with you on the house as a home point and look forward to all property prices in the area (mine included) falling back to historic norms of about 3x income. To wish for anything else (higher at least) is to condemn our children to a lifetime of housing poverty and home insecurity (as a home owner I can only sympathize with families trying to arrange schooling etc when their lives are dominated by private rented housing, typically with a maximum six months security of tenure). On my 'tongue in cheek' point, we'll soon see how typical you are. Historically low interest rates can only be followed in the medium term by something much higher (whether the 15%+ experienced in previous decades remains to be seen). People, such as yourself, with manageable mortgages and sensible loan to value levels should be fine. The targets of my comments (if there are any) won't and, sadly, their fecklessness won’t be limited to their own self-destruction but will impact on the whole of BG and possibly the wider village - if BG becomes a hot spot for repossessions. |
Commuter |
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GrumpyGirl
Average Member
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2009 : 11:00:48
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Commuter,
I think I am losing the will to live! Lighten up! |
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Commuter
Senior Member
United Kingdom
166 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2009 : 11:24:03
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quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyGirl
Commuter,
I think I am losing the will to live! Lighten up!
'How long before a serious and completely avoidable accident happens because residents park on the pavement, in front of give-way signs and basically cannot be bothered to park in the allotted parking spaces by their garages? WE have had several near misses lately with cars speeding down Bramley Way and nearly colliding with on-coming vehicles.'
Your words from the very first post on this thread. If you want a cheery, lighthearted discussion, start a cheery topic! |
Commuter |
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anthony
Average Member
United Kingdom
68 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2009 : 11:42:26
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quote:
Originally posted by GrumpyGirl
Does anybody know if the roads in Bramley Green are ever going to be adopted? The development has been finished now for nearly 5 years and still no sign of anything happening. How long before a serious and completely avoidable accident happens because residents park on the pavement, in front of give-way signs and basically cannot be bothered to park in the allotted parking spaces by their garages? WE have had several near misses lately with cars speeding down Bramley Way and nearly colliding with on-coming vehicles.
GrumpyGirl, all the time the estate is left with insufficient traffic calming measures to achieve a 20mph speed limit this will continue whether the roads are adopted or not. I cant understand why you are happy to compromise and accept a higher speed limit in order to get the roads adopted.
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